Need help understanding behavior

[tinypixiexoxo]

Hi guys I've had Minuit for a while (female, 2.5 years old) and I recently adopted Paprika (calling her Pappy, female, 5 years old) from a rescue.

At first it seemed like they didn't mind each other, but during intros and neutral play times, they started to spar. Minuit, the one I've had longer, has ripped a lot of fur out of Pappy, and would just go after her. So I've slowed down the process of introductions way down.

I have them living in a split DFN, Minuit on bottom and Pappy on top. It's working out for them individually fine.. They both seem happy and secure, with their own toys, ledges, wheels, etc. I know they probably know the other is there as the DFN shakes when someone's running on a wheel, and you can hear them bounding about from ledge to ledge, etc.

So the behaviors in question is urination. Firstly, Minuit has always been good at peeing in her pan, and she still (mostly) does, but of late I've noticed urine stains on the fleece bottom of her cage, on her fleece bed/cushion.. This has never occurred before Pappy came home. I'm wondering if Minuit is marking her own space on the off-chance that Pappy might come into her cage?

Pappy, I've literally only had 2 weeks. She seems to just pee "where ever." I know the rescue she was at provided litter for her and such, but I'm not sure if she 100% gets peeing in the pan. I find random spots on her fleece, as well, full of urine. If it's wet, I take the litter and soak it up, and place it in the pan, to hopefully get her to understand that's where you pee. But I'm just not sure?

Next, when they are out in the play room (not at the same time), they both seem to be marking around areas on the floor and on the coffee table (it's a throw-away, I'm not worried about it getting ruined). I can tell when they hop around and then squat in this certain way with this look in their eyes, I know they are peeing. Whyyy! Is it because they can smell the other's been around? Do I have to clean top to bottom after every chin has out time? It's getting ridiculous.

Finally, I've heard that males can pee at a target, but apparently so can Pappy. She's a confirmed female, so maybe I just haven't heard this before. But one day I was holding Minuit and we slowly walked toward Pappy's cage (she was inside.) Pappy did this dance, and aimed, and sprayed Minuit (and my hand) with urine! Whattt! Clearly this was aggressive/dominant behavior, but wow.. I just...

Does anyone have any insight or advice on these urinating behaviors? Clearly they are not ready to even start introducing (right?), but they seem so bent on peeing everywhere, aggressively. It's almost taken up play time for them, finding the spots, peeing, and getting excited when they hear the other one moving around. Minuit, on the bottom, goes absolutely nuts in her cage when it's Pappy's turn to come out and play. Pappy goes less nuts because she's not ground level, but she does become alert and agitated when she catches sight of Minuit, or can hear Minuit rolling in the dust bin.

Help/advice/support, please.

 

[greychins]

Hi Clare,

Some chins just never quite get the whole potty training thing. While I use fleece in the majority of the rescue cages, I've given up on giving them litter pans, as I tended to end up with shaving-covered fleece 99.9% of the time (for some reason, they like to dig in that little pan of shavings), and only the occasional chin that would actually use the box.

As far as spraying, I have a way worse time with females doing it than males. I've yet to have a male that sprays, but females do it, and can do it often. Pappy never sprayed while here, that's something new, and that can definitely be an aggressive/I don't like you type thing.

But despite all my years of chins, I've never dealt with this, what sounds like territorial marking. Hopefully someone can chime in with more insight.

 

[Amethyst]

As greychins has said I too have only had issues with females spraying, males tend to dribble where as females can pretty accurately spray up to something like 5 feet. The only spraying issue I've really heard about with males is lifting their tail to pee out of the cage behind them. Also females tend to be the more territorial, in the wild it's the females that have territories and adult males go between female territories. I've never had an issue with marking while playing, the only things I can think of is if you could either get separate play pens or play in different rooms, or put a tarp or something down so the pee is more easily cleaned up (I know, probably not very practical advice)and clean up all poop and pee between individual play sessions. Also not all chins take to litter training, or take a long time to train (weeks or even months), the two I have now literally take two steps from where ever they are sitting and pee. Also some that do become litter trained will sometimes decided to not be anymore for some reason, I think in your case it's probably as you said, she is marking her cage. You say you've only had the new one a couple weeks, so Minuit might calm down with the marking in the cage once she gets use to having a upstairs neighbor.
On the topic of trying to get them to bond, from the aggressive behavior you are describing I don't think they want to be friends, it sounds like they want to kill each other or at least Minuit wants to kill Pappy. Fur pulling is a bad sign and is generally a good warning of worse to come.

 

[tinypixiexoxo]

Thanks guys. I think the peeing (at least for Minuit) out of the litter pan is a reaction to knowing the other chin in there. It's only been 2 weeks, so maybe they will settle down and just accept the presence of the other.. but the getting peed on by Pappy took me by surprise! And I guess I remembered wrong, that females do the targeted peeing, not males (I might have assumed ... based on human anatomy xD )

I can certainly go around and pick up poops after each plays. Cleaning the carpet of urine will be harder, as they both like to chill under the fouton where we keep extra blankets. I'm starting to think I should rope that area off somehow so they can't get there, because it's hard for me to get there. And when I try to get them to come in from playing, they hide under there anyway.

I'm rather inspired about the different play rooms idea, though. Minuit loves the loft and stairs area, and Pappy is still a bit unfamiliar with it. Minuit is on the bottom level so when she's done, she hops back into her house, where as catching pappy to put her back is a challenge. So it might serve us to have Minuit keep the loft and stairs as her play room, and take Pappy out and have her play in the bathroom. I have a good-size bathroom, and it has ledges and cabinets she can jump around on, and I'll be able to catch her more easily.

I'm sad that it sounds like them being cage mates is less and less an option... But I'm committed to keeping both of them. If I understand correctly, they will both be fine without a cage mate?

 

[Amethyst]

Chinchillas do just fine without cage mates, it sounds like you spend time with each and you said they both seem happy alone. Chins are a lot like humans, although both are considered social creatures you do get some that like to be alone. I had around a dozen chins at one point, and almost as many cages. They seemed to like knowing there was others around but had no interest in sharing a cage, though some did like to have playtime together. We used to use a closed in stairway for playtime, the chins loved it.

 

[greychins]

Based on anatomy, I'd have thought, originally, that males would be the better sprayers, but no... I have a girl right now that has deadly aim. Ick. Never had a male spray, but I hear it can happen...

As far as playtime, carpet is way harder to clean, IMO, than some sort of tile or non-carpet floor. Can you let them play in the bathroom? I dunno bout your bathroom, but most don't have carpeting, and it would be easier to pick up poos and wipe up pee off a non-carpet floor. Easier to sanitize too.

Chins are fine without cage mates. There's plenty that come in that just refuse to have a buddy, and they're just as well-adjusted as the next chin. Some chins are just very territorial -- we have some rescues that do fine in playtime together, but try to cage them together? Forget it. They get in their cage and they're like "oh heck no, this is mine, get out!"