Metacam long term?

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Etherite

Active member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
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I already have another thread active right now, but I'm hoping to get some answers and opinions on this question.. and I don't think my other thread looks related enough for people that know about metacam.. to click on it? (Garbled english, I have no idea how to phrase that, but you guys know what I mean!)

My chinchilla has an unknown illness, he's been tested left and right, trust me.. and I find the only thing keeping him alive and happy is metacam. Alive, because the anti-inflammatory aspect of it keeps him breathing well, and not bloaty too. Happy, for obvious reasons, it's a pain killer.

He was on 0.25~0.3mL per day for 2 weeks and that seemed to be a good balance. No, his illness wasn't going away, but you couldn't tell it was there. On Saturday my vet told me to stop giving him metacam immediately because it'll apparently shut down his kidneys/liver. So now he's off metacam, and he's back to his deathbed. My baby is clearly in a lot of pain, he's wheezing, doesn't want me to touch him.. But he's still eating, drinking.

My vet said that for emergencies, I can give him metacam every 3-4 days, but once a day will surely kill him. Now I believed this, finding a lot of evidence that metacam even semi-long term will poison a rat or a dog, but I found quite a few people with chinchillas saying "It's kept my guy alive for years now" Is there honest testing done, real experience, who's blowing smoke here?

I can't stand to watch my baby in pain, but I refuse to put him down knowing that I could give him a simple oral syringe once a day to keep him happy. I also don't want to poison him.

Your experience with metacam, please! How long is too long?
 
Metacam can be used long term but with dogs and cat it requires lab testing. When used overa period of ime can cause kidney adnd liver damage. Its a give and take. Have him die cause he's in pain or buy a bit of time but eventually ruin his liver.... it boils down to quality of life to me. Use as little as you have to but as much as you need to. I would keep looking for a vet till I found out what was wrong and keep using the metacam until then.
 
When using metecam long term use it with famotidine (pepcid) to reduce the risk of gastric ulcers-that is your main concern. I have used it long term many times, a year or two and on one chin-3 years with no medical issues-and yes, the 3 year chin was on a 6month x-ray schedule to check for elongation during malo treatment and during the x-ray he got a blood panel taken, no change in liver enzymes. I would not hesitate to use it long term.
 
Thanks Tickle. Hopefully I can find pepcid here.. My main concern is getting the vet to agree to give me metacam long term. When Boo was having these horrible episodes of.. not breathing, the vet wouldn't really believe me because when I took him in for checkups he'd always be somewhat stable. I often get "He's doing much better" from him, even after "Uhh, but he stopped breathing again last night." "Really? WELL HE'S DOING MUCH BETTER." /Repeat next week.

If I can find raw famotidine, which I might have to get a prescription for here, but whatever I'm in Canada.. how much do I give, and how often?

Also could you tell me how old your chinchillas were when you did this, and how much metacam they got per day? My guy seems to be somewhat older than a lot of chins I read about with medical problems, I'm wondering if maybe he'll be at risk for different things.
 
Using 10 mg tablets it was 1mg per kg, twice a day. Gino was the longest one, his dose would be .25 ml to .6 ml-yes that was .6ml, the max dose which was used for 3 months, the .25 ml was for most of his life after 11 months old until he was 4. He also was on tramadol at the same time the .25ml was used. The oldest chin I used it on longer term-which was 6 months was 9. If I remember it was .15ml.
 
Thanks. :3 Boo's 8 or 9, gonna be 9 or 10 years old in Sept. I don't know his exact age since he was a young pet store chinchilla and they had no clue.. about anything, really.

Gonna get some pepcid today, I hope. Figuring out the dose probably won't be too easy for me since I'm awful at math, and converting weights/measurements. At least I know he's hovering around 600 or so grams. 1~ pound so.. 1.3 lbs, I think?

Excuse my stupidity, and correct my math where need be, cause it's gonna need it!

Wouldn't that be half of a mg, since he's only about 0.6kg? (600g/1.3lbs=0.6kg?) How can I possibly measure 0.6mg of a 10mg tab? It'd be like dust shavings, wouldn't it?

I assume you give it to them in water, in a syringe? Twice a day, plus his metacam.. I hope I don't have to grab the poor thing three times a day. Is it okay to give it to him once a day, at the same time as his metacam? If not, I can manage for his sake. He'll just hate me a little more.
 
You may want to try every other day dosing on the metacam. I don't know the weight of your chinchilla but I usually give my 1000 gr females .2 ml and am currently giving Sodalite .1ml once a day. I worry about GI bleeding and ulcers with metacam and is why I have cut my dose to every other day dosing.
 
First of all, if your vet can't find out what is wrong, maybe find another one.
Second, I lost my Chilli after 3 years of long term metacam use. It was off and on during that time. When he was out for filing and xrays, we did run blood work. It just seems strange that he starts wheezing if he is not on it. how is his appetite, poop, etc?
 
Godins Chinchillas said:
You may want to try every other day dosing on the metacam. I don't know the weight of your chinchilla but I usually give my 1000 gr females .2 ml and am currently giving Sodalite .1ml once a day. I worry about GI bleeding and ulcers with metacam and is why I have cut my dose to every other day dosing.
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Its why long term use you use the famotidine, to prevent gastric ulcers and bleeding.
 
ChilliPepper said:
First of all, if your vet can't find out what is wrong, maybe find another one.
Second, I lost my Chilli after 3 years of long term metacam use. It was off and on during that time. When he was out for filing and xrays, we did run blood work. It just seems strange that he starts wheezing if he is not on it. how is his appetite, poop, etc?
Click to expand...

What did the necropsy show as to the cause of death?
 
I just want to remind people that this OP is in Nova Scotia and the pickins is slim when it comes to vets, she is doing the best she can and is asking for advice in her bad situtation, she is not trying to avoid a vet.
 
Have you tried just a anti-inflamatory? You might be able to get a longer term script if you don't 'need' the pain killer side.
 
I love you, Tickle. You've helped a ton! I got the pepcid stuff today, the generic brand/form because it's pure, while the others were mint-flavored or 'extra strength'. Just have to figure out how I can possibly measure out 0.6, or.. 1mg will be tough too. Or how I can trick him into taking it. He's a champ with his acidophilus, he'll just bite the pill and thinks it's a treat, I'll have to cross my fingers.

Again, thank you Tickle. You wouldn't believe how many times people have told me to find a new vet.. I really wish that were an option. I guess it's reasonable for people to tell me that, but.. yup. Even our 'exotic specialists' have likely only dealt with one or two chinchillas in their lifetime. Please read my first post if you'd like to hear about one of Halifax's 'specialists', miss "We'll need a brain scan, or put him down"

To Dreamlite: That is a possibility, but unfortunately I think I do need the painkiller. One day off metacam and he's literally wincing in tears. Also, I wouldn't know what drug that could be, since he's only ever mentioned baytril or metacam. The vet is pretty limited as well, when I brought up what it could possibly be, and what he might need, he admit "We don't have most of the drugs that america has available for exotics"
 
ticklechin said:
What did the necropsy show as to the cause of death?
Click to expand...

I had him pts after he fqiled to bounce back from a filing. Each time he had done well, was eating right away. The last time he was not eating after two weeks of hand feeding and refused even oats. The vet suggested a follow filing but after three years, I felt he deserved to be in chinnie heaven because it wasnt making me any happier having him knowing he was obviously in too mich pain. He went downhill very fast weightwise but never lost his sparkle.

OP what dose of metacam? What is the solution strength? mg/ml? Chilli was on. 08 ml of 1.5 mg /ml twice a day. What is the one you are giving? Can you do a lpwer dose effectively?
 
I'm not sure, there's not much information on the bags and envelopes they give the syringes to me. Well, maybe there is and I just don't understand medical lingo.

One syringe daily, (0.28mL) Metacam Qty: 1.96, the syringes are filled to 0.3mL.. I have no idea what those numbers mean, but you guys seem to know what you're talking about so you can figure it out!

Also about the 'buying time' situation.. This could very possibly be cancer, the vet has admit that multiple times. He's an old fart with pre-existing conditions from years ago. Right now he's happily bouncing around my room, comes up to my leg every couple minutes to give me hugs, chirps at me, sits in my window, tackles pillows.. If I can keep him this happy for a couple more months, or even a year, I think it's absolutely worth it, even if the metacam will hurt him in the long run. Without it, he'll be hurting now. Also, since you mentioned 3 years.. My guy is 10, if he lives to be 13, that sounds good. Don't they usually only live to be 15ish tops?

Edit: missed your last question. No, I don't think I can. He was on 0.25mL and it was.. so-so. He did alright, but you could tell he wasn't feeling okay. He was then put on about 0.15mL because the staff in that building should be ..ahem. They were lazy and whoever filled the syringes doesn't care about animals suffering, so I got 60% air bubbles instead of 0.25mL. He did very, very badly. 0.3mL is keeping him bouncing for now.
 
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hmm, well, here's the thing, he is obviously uncomfortable without it. It becomes a quality of life thing. Yes, there is the possibility for liver/ kidney damage. I lost my cat one year ago today to kidney cancer. I asked my vet for a script of metacam for him even though it is not safe for use in cats- because of the kidney damage. My feeling was that if he would take it and it made him happy, the kidney damage was a moot point. We could not get him to take any other pain meds, but he loved his metacam- he had been prescribed it years ago before whoever decides these things blacklisted it for cats.
My point is, do what seems right to you. Ideally you could get to the bottom of this, but in the mean time, keep him happy. If he dies next week, you will at least know you did what you could to make him comfortable.
You mentioned an alfalfa allergy- is it possible he has developed other allergies? Perhaps take everything out of his cage, line with fleece and try using only hay blocks to cut down on his dust exposure.
Have you performed a thorough check of his penis? Typically the penis remaining extended as you describe has to do with a hair ring. As unwell as he has been, he may not be cleaning himself well. Check on here for videos and instructions on how to do a check if you don't know how.
I am sorry you are watching your boy suffer. And this may not be what you want to hear, but you need to think of his quality of life. I had 3 great years after Chilli's malo diagnosis, but I refused to let him suffer because I wasn't ready to say goodbye. Even at the vet clinic that morning, they asked me if I was sure I didn't want to try another filing. I had made up my mind, no, it was time while he was still happy, while he was still eager to come to me and eat his CC off my fingers (an accidental discovery, so much easier than a syringe, although mesy, lol). He ran and played and dusted and popcorned that morning. I will always have those memories and none of a truly suffering, declined chinnie that I waited too long for. So, keep up with the meds, I think. If it makes you feel comfortable, well, he is your pet and it is your decision.
 
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying you had him killed while he was still happy so he didn't have the chance to suffer? That sounds sickening. Wait, weren't we talking about a chinchilla who 'died from metacam'? I am so confused now, I'll have to go back and read everything again before my next post, but.. no, I could never, ever do that. He's gone through some suffering, yes, but so have I in my lifetime and I got through it to live healthily again.

I understand tooth problems in chinchillas are a whole different story, and it sounds like it would have eventually turned down that road anyways.. but that sounds extremely cruel, he was happy, and a happy animal is an animal that wants to live.

Boo is not suffering as long as he gets his metacam. When I absolutely can't keep him out of pain anymore, then I'll think about it.. but right now putting him down is not even a slight possibility.

About the hair ring, I've looked, but I'll probably end up looking again even though it's really difficult. It almost looks like he chewed the tip of his penis a little bit. I never noticed any blood, but it just looks weird. I'll check it out soon.
 
I was wondering also, I sounded like the chin died from the metecam which is why I asked about a necropsy, which was not done so there is no proof there was a issue due to the metecam. I also agree about the PTS, if the chin is happy and doing all the chin things it usually does I will not PTS, even dental chins for which I have had many and have had to PTS when the quality of life was gone. You are dealing with a unknown issue, even harder to make a decision since this could clear up.
 
Well I went back and re-read the entire thread, and it doesn't sound AS cruel for poor little Chilli. Sounds like he did go through a lot, but I could still never do it. But I'm trying to figure out the effects of long term metacam use, and I know you're likely just looking out for my baby's best interest, but what makes you think the metacam hurt him? Your first post was pretty much a direct "My chinchilla died after long term use of metacam" and please, if you saw any bad reactions after dosing, tell me because I'd love to know for reference. But now that I have more on the story it just sounds like you're trying to scare me off of it. I don't mean to attack you personally, Chilli. I'm just confused by this situation and want to clear everything up.

Since this is my active thread now I guess I'll add a few more details. His appetite is still good, I sweep his house pretty much every day so I can keep tabs on his poop by the hour. For the most part they're perfect looking, but they change randomly. Sometimes they're huge, I had runny poops for about one day, sometimes he'll give me a few bright green ones, but also very rarely. Lately they've been perfectly fine. I also find they start to change when he's off metacam, to.. any one of those ^. Last time he was off for one day they turned bright green and starchy looking.

He's also off anything that's even remotely treat-like. Aside from one day when he attacked his way into a raisin stash while I wasn't looking.. THEY'RE IN THE GARBAGE NOW! Even his daily oxbow Vit C makes him worse. They probably put sugar in it, and any amount of sugar probably messes with his stomach.

My theory for that is he bloated and maybe had some minor tearing in his sides, because he winces at me if I give him gentle pettins around his ribs now; Can be hard, because he still loves chin-scratchies and a chinchillas cheeks might as well be their sides.

Along with 0.3mL of metacam at 5pm every day, he gets 10mL of critical care. I know 10mL isn't a lot, but it's a whole feeding syringe and definitely enough for one sitting, if not too much. He eats on his own too, so I don't want to explode the little guy. It's just a cushion for the metacam in his stomach. One full feeding syringe then his dose. He also gets acidophilus and simethicone randomly, I used acisophilus daily, but now I'm laying off a little bit, and the simethicone will likely be every couple days. He's not bloaty at all right now and I don't want to stuff him with drugs. Now he's also on a little dot of the acid control pills twice a day. Licks it off my finger.. Hope I'm not giving him too much.

His condition hasn't changed lately but I'm still gonna check this thread every couple hours! It's been a huge help, and I really value what everyone has to say. <3
 
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