Heart murmur causing deep breath?

[dabou]

First of all, just want to say English' s not my main language, so if something sounds off, it's mostly because of that

OK so Pedro, my adopted chin, turned 9 years old 5 days ago. I noticed him seemingly taking very deep breaths yesterday, kinda like how a person breathes after efforts. I took him out for his usual play time, nothing abnormal in his behavior, aside from the breathing. Do you guys think his heart murmur would make him breathe like that? I never really noticed till today... It's his breathing that bothers me, I'm planning on going to the vet if nothing changes overnight

2 days ago, when I was about to refill his water, I noticed it wasn't empty like usual (almost empty, he drinks and pees a lot, well a lot more than Kahlua) and I noticed he didn't eat that much. But since sometimes he doesn't eat much the pellets and eat more of his hay, I thought it was fine.

Same thing yesterday. But tonight, I noticed a bunch of small droppings too... So I figured I might give too much of that shredded wheat (not the sugar mini wheats, a non sugar one). Any idea?

 

[dabou]

For the record, for those of you wanted to have news, yesterday I called the vet saying he was breathing with big breaths and also that he seemed to not have been drinking and eating as usual. Sadly yesterday the exotic specialist vet wasn't there so I took an appointment for tomorrow (monday, they're closed on sunday) and I've read a lot on the forums, gave him tummy massages (although I dunno if I'm doing them right...I couldn't find a video of how to give a proper belly massage to a chinnie, so I'm doing the best I can) and also put a warm compress (sock with uncooked rice in it) under him as he was laying on me. I gave him water from a drinking bottle, that he drank without a fuss. And I also made sure he ate. So he eats and drinks, he pees and poops but he doesn't do a lot of either.

Good news is today he seems more active, his eyes are more brilliant and more open, and he enjoyed his little run outside the cage. I'm keeping a close eye on him, and he seems a little better

 

[dabou]

Well okay so I went to the vet today, Pedro demonstrated that his digestive system was working like a charm by leaving gifts all around the vet's desk. He was also active as usual, whiny as usual (during the exam, he always complains when she touches his tummy and checks his cheeks) so his general state is pretty much normal. No infection, no noisy breathing, just the fact that it was heavy looking, like if he had run for a long time.

So she told me that she couldn't even hear the heart murmur anymore, which can be either good or bad. She took him for radiology, and when she returned she told me that the good news was that we could compare to previous radios... But the bad news is that his breathing is caused by his heart. His heart doubled in size, and is taking the room of the lungs... She said it's not something that is painful, but more like something that drains his energy...

So as for the "treatment" (as far as it can go, cause nothing can cure this) it could be Dilated Cardiomyopathy (cardiac muscle becomes thinner and stretches, making the heart bigger and reducing its ability to pump blood) or it could be some kind of heart cancer. Either way, it's not treatable. If it's the Dilated Cardiomyopathy, I can either give Pedro something that would lower his pressure, thus helping the heart muscle a bit. The good part is that even if it doesn't work, there can't really be any bad side to the treatment. There is also another kind of medicine, that one would give tonus to the heart muscle, allowing it to contract better. But since it's the stronger medicine, there is also the risk of a part of the heart being too weak, and the medicine making the heart pierce and killing Pedro in the process...

I don't know what to do....paying for xrays is one thing, driving 4 hours to go to a hospital and pay $800 and more for a cardiologist is another...even more since I know nothing can cure the problem... The medicines would only allow him to live a little longer...And also I know he's not in pain...

The vet will email me the xrays, so you guys can clearly see the difference of his heart size...Anyone here had this experience? I'm thinking of taking the pressure medicine more, I wouldnt want to kill Pedro prematurely...

 

[Godofgods]

never heard of this issue before myself, but man... So sry to hear that...

 

[ticklechin]

The use of a ACE inhibiter such as enalapril or lisinopril along with lasix could keep the chin in good shape for the rest of its life if it is congestive heart failure or something along that line, frankly a cardiologist can't do much more-I had one who told me as much when I was dealing with a class V murmur chin in cardiac failure. If this was my chin I would try the meds since the alternative is PTS and if the chin is still having a quality of life, I would do it.

 

[dabou]

@ticklechin (Dawn)

so the first medicine is FORTEKOR, that one being the one for pressure and, if I understand correctly, like the ACE inhibiter you talked about? (technical terms used in english confuse me a bit...^_^; )

and the second one is VETMEDIN, that one being the one that helps the heart contract better, but has a 5-10% chance of killing Pedro if his heart's tissues are too thin somewhere.

The thing is that the vet thinks it's Dilated Cardiomyopathy, she can't be certain since she only did xrays. She says it could be a heart cancer, but she says it's very rare in chinchillas.

PTS....do you mean "put to sleep"? there seems to be a lot of different definitions...in which case I wouldn't want to do that since he's still rather active, less than Kahlua but still, his eyes are still alive and full of sparkles

I'll ask the vet if she knows these medicine though, I think they are mostly similar to the FORTEKOR medicine. I know one of these is only in liquid state for cats, and it's probably tuna flavored...I don't feel like Pedro's gonna like it...hehe. but yeah, if you are talking about a medicine that is mostly to control pressure, then I guess it'd be the one I'd chose, I'm afraid of taking the other and Pedro falling in the 5-10% chances of death...


oh also, pictures of the xrays, the first and third images were taken in 2012, the second and fourth ones were taken in 2014.

 

[ticklechin]

When treatment was discussed on my class V murmur chin in congestive heart failure, the use of the inodilators was discussed (the vetmedin) but it was decided his heart would not take it and the lasix was used to decrease volume, rather that increase pumping pressure, the Fortekor is a ace inhibitor.

 

[dabou]

@ticklechin (Dawn)

Thank you so much for the clarification and details, you have no idea how reassuring it is to me
I will chose the Ace inhibitor since it does help according to your experience

Of course I understand that not unlike humans, animals can react differently to medicines, but I like that one better since it can't really have any bad effects.

You are amazing, Pedro and I thank you
... Of course Kahlua thanks you too, even though they're not in the same cage, they're side by side, he needs his chat buddy

 

[ticklechin]

Ask the vet if the use of furosemide (lasix) would be appropriate for the diagnosis and treatment with this chin along with the ACE inhibitor.

 

[dabou]

@ticklechin (Dawn)

My vet told me that the lasix was unnecessary since it's mostly when chinnies have water on their lungs. Since Pedro doesn't have any it would dehydrate him ^_^;

But I'm glad I understand that clearly too, and I'm looking forward to see if Pedro likes his medicine...so as to see if I'll have to burrito him forever XD