Dog NQR but vet is stumped. Worried.

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AnnShh

AnnShh

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
312
Location
VA
I am worried about my older dog. He's a shepherd mix, approx 10 years old (that's our best guess... we picked him up as a stray). I've had him for almost 2.5 months.

3 weeks ago he had an episode where he couldn't walk without falling over or running into things because he had no balance, he was trembling, and was acting like he couldn't see. 8 hours later he was 90% back to normal. Vet thought it was Canine Vestibular disease initially, but then decided probably not because he didn't have the typical head tilt or rapid eye movement, and dogs with vestibular tend to get worse before they get better. He treated for an inner ear infection just incase since that could also cause balance problems.

Ever since then, he's had bouts of incontinence while he's been sleeping (usually during the day, but occasionally at night). His appetite decreased and even when I mix the food with canned food, he picks at it or leaves it. He's eating a cup of food a day at most. He drinks a ton- I just bought him a 10 qt. bowl a couple weeks ago because I was having to fill his smaller one several times a day. He drinks between 3-5 quarts a day. His attitude has remained the same up until a few days ago. Now he's not as excited on our walks, is not as active when he usually is, etc. Today he is acting depressed/lethargic, was not interested in our mid-day walk, and hasn't eaten despite mixing canned food with it. He threw up sometime during the night and slept in until 9 this morning (unusual for him, as he's usually up and ready to start the day around 5am or if I insist on trying to sleep in by 7 he is practically pacing around my room waiting for me to get up).

I took him to the vet Monday and his bloodwork and urinalysis came back completely normal. She tested for diabetes, checked kidney function, thyroids, etc. Everything came back normal. She didn't like how much he was drinking but thought that might possibly be a cycle with the incontinence (drinking too much, peeing more, needing to drink more). She put him on meds for the incontinence.

I called her today as I really don't like his depressed look and she said that she could do more in depth testing but that it's going to cost $$$. The bill for the last two visits wasn't cheap. I'm a college student and can't afford thousands of dollars. On top of that, the Army is deducting almost $500 from my paycheck next week because of a pay error that I didn't notice over the summer since I was at training and couldn't check my bank account, so things are tight around here for a little while.

I guess I'm just looking for ideas or experiences with similar symptoms. Our major concern when I brought him in on Monday was diabetes or kidney problems but that's been ruled out. I don't even know what other kinds of tests they could do, let alone tests that won't cost a ton of money. I just feel bad for him because he is acting NQR.
 
What about epilepsy? Or some other kind of seizure disorder. No idea how that's tested though or costs. Good luck it can be hard especially when they are older.
 
Dolyphinm said:
What about epilepsy? Or some other kind of seizure disorder. No idea how that's tested though or costs. Good luck it can be hard especially when they are older.
Click to expand...

He isn't showing any signs of having seizures so that would be probably last on my list to test for. His "episode" where he couldn't walk and was having balance issues was a total balance/vertigo problem. We don't know exactly what but the vet said either Vestibular disease or an inner ear infection. Either way his only residual effect from it is that he kind of stumbles a bit if he shakes his head... unless all of these issues we are having now are a result of the Vestibular/ear infection.
 
My first thought on the dizziness was Vestibular syndrome. It usually last longer than 8 hours (days, weeks, months...some never fully recover and just learn to live with it). Not every case is the same though...I wouldn't rule it out completely. It could be he had a mild case...learned to compensate in that first 8 hours. Maybe he's still dizzy feeling and thats why he's not too excited about walks. When my old girl had it, she drank a lot of water and didn't want to eat much because of the dizziness.

I'm guessing he's on Proin for the incontinence?

Also consider Cushings syndrome. You haven't listed all the symptoms, but not all dogs have all the symptoms. It could explain the water intake and dizziness.

Also take a look at your food. Maybe he just doesn't like it anymore, doesn't want to eat it, is drinking lots of water to fill himself up, leading to more urinating, and he just plain doesn't feel well from not eating much so doesn't want to go walk. <--I hope its that because it has the easiest solution. Doesn't explain the dizziness though.
 
Sounds like a stroke to me. We had a dog come in with very similar symptoms a few weeks ago that was caused by a stroke- confusion, loss of balance, stumbling, incontinence, etc. that cleared up by the next day, but he remained depressed and quiet. Seeing all the testing coming back normal leads me to believe even more that is was a stroke. The only way to definitively diagnose a stroke is through brain scans- everything else will usually come back normal assuming no systemic disease caused the stroke.
 
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I'll see if I can give a better timeline / description of symptoms. Our initial thought was Vestibular when it happened but when he got better so quickly and didn't show many of the main symptoms the vet wasn't convinced.

Picked up in the beginning of August as a stray. He ate his dry food voraciously. Seemed to drink a lot of water but we had 4 other dogs in the house so I had no way of knowing how much. Had a good level of energy for an old dog.

Sept 18th around 9pm I found him running into things, falling over when he tried to walk, no balance, etc. He was trembling (not sure if it was from fear or pain), wouldn't eat, etc. He never had a head tilt or rapid eye movement which is common with Vestibular. Brought him to vet. By next morning he was 90% better. Excited to go out for his walk, walking well, eating, although he still had some residual balance issues but not bad unless he shook his head or sneezed.

After this he started having incontinence problems once or twice a week, despite being taken out regularly. He still remained enthusiastic for his walks but he had a decreased appetite. He did eat his food if I mixed it with canned food, however. He continued to drink a lot of water. Otherwise he continued to act normallly, good attitude, etc.

On approximately Sept 28th I bought him a 10 qt. bowl so that I could better measure how much he was drinking. Since then he's been drinking 3-5 qt's a day... lately it's been closer to 3 quarts.

His appetite was on and off. Some days he would eat his food, some days he wouldn't. Often I'd give 2 cups and he would eat it over a couple of days.

Oct. 8th he had another vet visit. Bloodwork normal, urinalysis normal, etc. She tested for diabetes, thyroid problems, kidney problems. Nothing came up. Sent home with Estradiol for the incontinence.Since starting the meds there hasn't been any more incontinence problems. He is drinking less than he was (approximately 3 quarts a day now). But he's not eating well. He ate maybe a cup of food, if that, each day this week up until Thursday.

Thursday he didn't eat at all, so I mixed some canned food in it and left it over night to see if he would eat it. He picked at it some but threw up at some point during the night. Friday he refused his food, whether dry or canned. He also refused a hot dog, chicken, etc. that I offered him when I was eating it. He was not at all enthusiastic for his walks and looked/acted depressed and lethargic.

Today he was a little more enthusiastic for his walk but he still has not eaten anything. I've tried a variety of canned foods today alone. He picked sniffed the mixture of packet food (chicken in gravy from Ol' Roy) and dry, but didn't eat it. I just soaked his dry food in water as a last resort. No luck. I don't think he drank any water today either. He is still acting depressed but not as badly as yesterday. He did take a piece of a hot dog but refused everything else.

I've tried a variety of dry and canned foods throughout this time, to include several types of Blue Buffalo and Blue Wilderness, Kirkland, a cheap walmart brand (I don't remember what it was), and Pedigree. None of it seemed to make any difference.

I'm stressing out big time. I hate seeing him act like this. This is day 3 of not eating anything and it's been weeks since he's actually eaten all of his food in one day. Not to mention how depressed he is acting. Unfortunately it sounds like there are so many things it could potentially be and all of which are going to require a good bit of $$$ to figure out, which I don't have right now.

Some other people are suggesting I just skip the vet and ask for a referral to a specialist, but from previous experience that's going to cost at least $150 just to get in the door before anything else they do (not to mention about $150 in gas to get to/from the closest one I've found).

I will discuss a stroke with the vet. I'm going to call Monday again to discuss and get an opinion on what to do next. The one vet he saw for the potential Vestibular I was not impressed with. He didn't even mention a stroke. The lady we saw last time was great and I intend to continue using her. I just don't know what to do. I automatically think the worst.
 
She said she did a thorough exam while he was in the back having blood drawn but I don't know specifics... all she said was that he appeared to be in good health for a senior dog. I know she checked his teeth. I will ask about the details of that exam on Monday.
 
try boiled hamburg and rice to get him to eat. Hopefully the vet is able to figure out what is going on with him.
 
I know when our cat Marty got sick and refused to eat, our vet gave us this tube of medication. You put it on the cat's tongue and it stimulated his appetite. I am sure that the vet would have already recommended this if it was available or would work in this situation. I thought I would mention it in case. I am really sorry you are having such a difficult time with your dog and hope you find out what's going on soon!
 
My initial thought was epilepsy. I have a 10 year old border collie with epilepsy and after a seizure she is either completely lame for about 5 minutes, or very confused/disoriented. They can also lose their ability to see after a seizure for a short period of time. And lose bowel/bladder control. Is it possible that he is having seizures that you just aren't seeing? My girl has had them for years now, and there is no medical explanation. All tests come back normal.

Another thought, which I am also currently going through, is pancreatitis. When it first started she was in a lot of pain, which made her wander around and do strange things. Like fluffing up a pile of leaves to lay in out in the yard, and then digging a hole in the dirt and laying in it. She would also stand and stare at the fence.
 
my dog was just diagnosed with cushings disease. she is a collie/shep mix. 13 years old. excessive thirst and loss of bladder at times. although she has an increased appetite. i am about to post in another thread about it. but she had a urinalysis first and then i just took her wednesday for a low suppresssion dexamethasone test which she tested positive for cushings. treatable with meds. but i am currently researching other options as well.
 
Update

I got fed up with the vet I was using. I didn't feel as though she was taking things as seriously as I felt they should have been taken. On day 9 of him not eating she put him on an appetite stimulant but only after I pushed for SOMETHING to be done. I constantly felt like she was only running various tests the whole time because I kept calling the office. She told me at one point that he's probably just being picky. If he was off his food for a couple days, sure. But 9 days? I don't think that's the case.

I took him to another vet, who was recommended to me by several people for being excellent with geriatric dogs. She looked at his history, notes from the other vet, x-rays, blood work, and videos of his suspected "vestibular". She said he didn't present with symptoms that would lead her to believe it was vestibular (she said that they always have the head tilt and rapid eye movement). She said that given the fact that his incontinence issues and appetite issues didn't start until after that event, she would bet that he had a small stroke.

She said that if it were her personal dog, she'd treat the individual symptoms. She put him on a difference incontinence medication and on Metacam for arthritis and said to leave dry food available for him but to cook him a mix of chicken, green beans, and rice until if/when he ever starts eating the dry food again.

The dog is eating better than I am... He is definitely more active now than he was. I don't like how ribby he is getting but I am going to up his food intake to see if that helps.
 
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