Bloat?

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Cheknnudol

Cheknnudol

Chingeneer
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
115
Location
Portland, OR
Background info: http://chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4314

I've been giving Nibbler approximately 70mL of critical care every few hours, baytril and probiocin every 12 hours (probiocin some time after the baytril), and metacam every 24 hours. This morning after feeding, though, I let him down on the bathroom floor for a while to stretch his legs. Instead of hopping around and getting into trouble, he walked a couple steps, stretched, walked a few more steps, stretched, then laid down with his front paws way in front of the hind ones. I let him be to watch him a bit longer, and he continued to do this, every now and again rolling onto his side and stretching a bit more. When I put him back in his quarantine cage I put my hand on his tummy and it feels pretty firm. I massaged it a little and while he seemed to like it at first, as I moved lower he got a bit nippy with me. I'm worried that he is bloated, but I'm not sure how this could have happened. I'm having my boyfriend pick up some simethicone drops on his way over and i've been rubbing his belly when I can (translation: as long as I can before he starts biting me). What else can I do? Should I head back in to the vet's office now for Reglan and Propulsid? help!
 
Yes, you need to get back to the vet now. Sounds exactly like bloat. You can give 1 full drop of simethicone for now, and 1 every 4 hours, but you can't rely on that solely to treat the bloat.

If I remember correctly propulsid is a drug vets use to help treat bloat.

You really do need to get to a vet soon; chins with bloat can go downhill fast.
 
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I have an appointment in an hour. That's about as long as it takes to drive there so I hope they don't mind that I'm covered in critical care and smell a bit like pee >.< What could have brought this on? He's still pooping and peeing since I had him on quite a bit of critical care, and hasn't had access to anything that he shouldn't have eaten. He's been holed up in his quarantine cage for several days now.
 
Reglan, Propulsid, Metacam, and simethicone drops.

If you see this in time, be sure they check for blockages. It could be that, or he could be in the very beginning stages of bloat as well. It's also possible the stretching could simply be a sign of pain.
 
Back from the vet 3 hours (and $250 more) later. We got a different vet this time, and apparently in the few days it's been since I was there, there was a build up of fluid behind and just below the injury. Additionally, X-rays showed gas build up (no blockages) as expected. The initial list of treatments she wanted me to sign off on would've been between $800 and $1300, but I just can't afford that right now (Please don't chime in with the 'if you can't afford the vet, then don't get the pet' stuff. I may be a poor college student but I am employed, however my clients are currently stuck in a rut with the economy and haven't paid in my invoices - an amount approaching $800). After reviewing the list, which included stays in the exotic animal ICU and surgery charges by the minute (I thought only 900 number workers made money like that), we decided to talk to the vet about alternatives.

In addition to my demand for X-rays, she proposed a switch to a different antibiotic as she felt that the baytril may have simply not agreed with Nibbler and contributed to the gas build up. I'm not sure why it would've done so now and not previously, but hey she's the doc so we agreed. Additionally, we received metoclopramide which she explained to be a motility drug and were told to continue with the metacam we received at our last visit. While I couldn't afford to let her do full on surgery on his wound to fully drain and clean and suture and everything, she went ahead and cleaned it up and put staples on it when he went back for the X-rays and put a collar on him since he'd been biting at it before.

I'm not sure how the metoclopramide compares with reglan and propulside since when I asked her if it was like either of those she simply said "yes" rather than indicating which one. My optimistic side wants to think that it's a 2-in-1 deal, though I have a feeling it isn't and we got shorted. Unfortunately, it took the 20 dollar bill in my wallet and the four $1's in my boyfriend's wallet to bring down today's total low enough for me to avoid any overdraft fees on my checking account, so going back for additional meds is out of my means at least for the time being.

To those who will suggest it, I did read up about Care Credit when I saw the initial bill. I wanted to do it because I only want the best for my boys, and the amount is within my means in general - this month however was just really abnormal. When my application was submitted, however, they did not accept me - presumably because my credit history is nonexistent. I've only just turned 18 and have no credit cards or anything similar. Neither of my parents accompanied me to co-apply and my boyfriend can't afford to. A sad state of affairs.

For the past few days I had been getting between 30 and 60 mL into Nibbler per feeding, which unfortunately was only two or three times per day since I simply cannot take time off of school right now (the profs this quarter have turned out to be real sticklers on attendance) and nobody is really around to substitute in for me. I realize this was probably a major contributor to Nibbler's current condition and I feel terrible, but my main question on this note is was that too much food? The vet told me that it was way too much but I figured if he was eating that was a good thing. Also, she told me to stop giving them the oats and instead give dandelions or fresh grass (what?) because oats were too fatty.. even though they only get two or three pieces each every couple of weeks. Is this reliable info? Aren't dandelions toxic to horses? He weighed in at 947 today and a week ago was only 866.

Any advice or insight on any part of this situation would be much appreciated.
 
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Thanks Jill. I know they work different parts of the GI tract; do I need to find someone to borrow some money from and pick up the propulsid?
 
Oats are a fine treat for chins, so long as they are the old fashioned kind and not the instant type.

Fresh grass and fresh dandelions are a definite no no as they can cause bloat.

Right now he probably shouldnt get any treats at all until his digestive problems are sorted out.

Best of wishes to you and your boy xxxx
 
Most vets- even good ones- know NOTHING about the actual proper diets, cages, etc. of most exotics. My amazing vet told me to feed my hedgehog that nasty hedgehog food, because that is what her "book" or whatever says. She learns medications and new surgeries and stuff like that, but I would never take her advice on what to feed my chins.

On that note... I have heard of feeding chins dried dandelion leaves or something like that...but it was more like an herbal supplement type thing, not a diet replacement. I am concerned about him gaining so much weight so fast, and that is pretty big for a sick male chin. I would only feed him hay, pellets (what kind do you feed?) and water. Get him the meds if at all possible, and keep feeding him the CC. That is not too much at all...I feed a 500 gram chin 80 grams just to keep his weight on. A few oats are fine, but since he is so big, maybe just give him a rosehip.
 
Aren't dandelions toxic to horses?
Click to expand...

I can't say as I've done a study of it, but I'd find this hard to believe. I've seen my horses eat dandelions, and it'd be pretty hard to have an entire field free of them, especially out here in the spring. My yard is yellow, not green. That said, I would not give any herb as a diet replacement. As an enhancement for a specific need, yes, but not as a replacement.

I would also be concerned about that fast of a weight gain and wonder if it isn't part of whatever is causing the stomach issue. Retaining fluid with the bloat maybe? Right now though, if he is suffering from bloat, I wouldn't be giving him treats at all. Focus on getting the bloat cleared up, and then gradually reintroduce the fun stuff.
 
I agree totally with Tunes = after he is well for a good period of time you can start to slowly introduce 'the fun stuff' - As for dandelions, I give my chins 1 plant (the whole thing) once a week They absolutely love it and I have never had a problem - I was told several years ago that dandelions were good for chins so I decided to try it My yard has never had pesticides or fertizers used so I know it is safe. I also have enough property that someone's pestiides/fertizers can't get into my yard I know some people are going to say I shouldn't use but I have found in the spring/summer/fall when I use the dandelions I have the best poops of all in my chins. I feed Mazuir and PANR
 
I'm not giving him treats while he's sick. Even before this whole fiasco they were getting a rose hip once -MAYBE twice - each week. Oats were only given every couple of months since I don't have many on hand and after a while they started expecting them which made for some disappointed and uncooperative chinnies. I feed timmy hay from my local feed store and Mazuri pellets, along with fresh water. All three are available 24 - 7.

The vet had asked what type of treats they received, such as oats or yogurt balls or anything (she saw the food already because it was in a bowl in his carrier, so I guess she didn't feel the need to ask about it). I told her on a very sparse occassion I gave the organic old fashioned oats, and the occassional rose hip. With no comment on the rose hips, she proceeded to tell me that oats were too high in fat to give chinchillas (what?) and that I should be trying to give fresh cut grass or maybe fresh (not dried) dandelions as they would also help keep him hydrated. Zion: Do you feed them fresh or dried? She asked how much critical care we were giving and when I said between 30 and 60 mL per feeding and at the time that was twice a day, her jaw dropped and she gave me this glare as if I was trying to kill him, saying he should only be getting 80mL a day. I thought that was pretty low, especially for a boy the size of mine. His weight last year was around 820 grams (I had the vet assistant check the record for me), so this bout of illness aside he's still a big chin.

As far as the weight gain, his defecation has been slowing over the last day or so and has now stopped, so I fear that the majority of this weight is waste he hasn't been able to get rid of, and some of the fluid build up from the wound. Approx 80 grams in about week isn't unheard of though, is it? I know that I have been feeding quite a bit, but i'm not prying his mouth open or anything to get him to take it. He's very good about letting me know when he's done, and of the feedings in the past week, this morning was the first one where he flat out told me no. Unfortunately that was after only 20 mL when before we could easily get about 60mL in him before he and I were both tired of sitting on the floor in my bathroom.

I'm going to call the vet a little bit later today (I've got a midterm in an hour that I haven't been able to study for because of this whole situation - wish me luck!) and ask about the propulsid, as well as ask them to e-mail me the x-rays they took. If nothing else they could be posted here on the forum as a learning tool. I know they helped me really understand what was wrong and how serious it was.
 
If he's refusing to eat and not pooping you've got a VERY seriously ill chinnie on your hands. This sort of a thing can be fatal, and QUICK. I'm not the best for detailed answers on what to do, as I've never been in this situation, but I've heard of belly massages, sometimes heating pads, and a few other things I can't quite remember. All I can really say is that from reading on here I've heard of chins going downhill and possibly dying in a matter of hours after they stop eating.

There's a lot that can be done to keep the gut moving but you'll need to start on it ASAP. Has he been xrayed for blockages? Please talk to someone a bit more knowledgeable than I, I just wanted to underline the severity of a non-pooping chin.
 
As a relatively long term member to CnQ in addition to this forum I'm fully aware of the severity of this issue. Baytril has, fairly commonly, caused chins not to eat sufficiently and I have worked to remedy that by supplemental (and now, primary) hand feeding. Additionally, the bloat has caused him to be in quite a bit of pain and now stop pooping, which is obviously quite severe. I am trying to keep food in him, am administering belly massages almost every minute that I am home, and am giving him the motility meds, antibiotics, probiotics, and pain relievers that were given to me by the veterinarian. He has hay, mazuri, and water in the recovery cage he is in. This is lined with fleece with no ledges to jump on, not that he can jump anyways, so that I can monitor his bodily functions and discharges. His wound, having been stapled shut and protected from him by a collar, is being medicated with antibiotics topical creams as per veterinary instructions now that he can no longer reach his mouth or hands to the injury.

If there is anything else that I can be doing, please do let me know. If it doesn't show by how I'm posting, know that I'm scared crapless and more depressed than you can imagine at the state of things right now; please don't underestimate how seriously I take this.

Going in for my midterm now; I will try to have the x-rays that were taken yesterday by early this evening to show you all. Thank you for the support.
 
I'm sorry if I underestimated your understanding of the severity. I just really wanted to make sure you knew! I can tell you're doing everything you can for the poor little guy, best wishes for a speedy recovery. :crossfingers: I wish there was some way I could help, my Nibbler says hi, and best wishes from him as well. :) They're a tough little race, those Niblonians, I'm confident he'll pull through.
 
Sounds like you are doing everything you can. One of my little guys is on antibiotics and I am having a difficult time too. I am so sad that he is not well. I wish I didnt have to work so I can stay home and check on him all day. Plus he really seems so happy when he is out for playtime, that I just want to be there for him.
Thats why this group is SO helpful for me in so many ways, not just how to deal with my chins but mentally as a support. So keep up what you are doing & my thoughts are with you & the nibbler.
 
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