Milo :)

Milo10 said:

You know how when people take lets say amoxicilin and we're suppose to take it for the 30 days we become immune to it. Well it works the same way with animals. If I stop giving Milo her meds before shes supposed to be off them, If she needs Baytril in the future for another problem that she could have then it won't work.

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The reason that you are supposed to finish a course of antibiotics is not because you become immune to them. It is because if you do not finish the course, you risk leaving bacteria that become resistant to the antibiotic. There is nothing in an antibiotic to become "immune" to since it is not a virus or bacteria.

We also have a few members with young chinchillas that were given baytril and stopped growing thereafter.

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especially when there is anecdotal evidence from people who have used it in chin kits & seen effects.

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No where did you say or anyone say they had first hand experience, this is what was said prior to you posting.

I see no one better then ChinVet to answer the question, a vet and a breeder. What she would say IMO would be the proper answer and end this discussion and satisfy any questions. I don't see a problem here with asking a expert.

I had a six week old male that had an upper respiratory infection about five or six years ago. He was given Baytril for a week. He remained very small for his new owner. He didn't have any real health problems beyond staying small and still seems to be in good health, but he isn't anything like his siblings.

His growth may have been stunted by the illness or the medication. If I had to do it over again, I would have definitely used something different. It was a real problem getting him to start eating on his own because he had to be syringe fed for so long.

I think that Tabitha had some problems with chins having young chins stay really small after being given Baytril. Besides that, it's just such a harsh antibiotic to give to younger chins and can make them stop eating.

ETA: The chin that had the ear infection back in 2003 probably didn't reach full size either. He's just a little guy, but he didn't stay nearly as small as the little mosaic (his name will come back to me sometime later) that went to his new home in 2004/2005.

It can make any chin stop eating and it does. That is not the point, the point we have here do you risk the chins life with a weaker antibiotic in exchange for normal growth, that is what I am questioning. The closest one I see that is acceptable in this situation that was mentioned was bacterim, better choice since the question of the growth problem would be dropped. That would be the one I would bring up to the vet if I was in the OPs shoes and worried about growth.

There are many possibilities for the vet to consider at this point. I know that I've had the vet switch from Baytril after a week or 10 days to something else when it is necessary. The longer a chin is on it, the more damage it can do...and the more the growth could be stunted. One of my vets really prefers to not use Baytril unless it's for a respiratory infection or a uterine infection - he has said that he doesn't think it does the best job getting out of the bloodstream into the ear itself.

If there are other options that do not have as many of the risks, they can be explored. Baytril isn't the only medication that can treat this issue. But, that's for the vet to decide at this point.

Its good we hash this out some prior to her asking the vet, the more info the better and every one learns something. I stated in a prior thread I was not sure if kits could have baytril, I was under the impression they could not but some people said they use it all the time, the dog issue was brought up and the question I had was not answered. Now that there are first hand experiences coming out it helps everyone and it gives the OP more "ammo" to ask for another antibiotic.

You can use it for kits because sometimes it's better than having a kit die of the infection. Sometimes it's all the vet has around and the chin needs it immediately. It does knock out infections and can do it fast....it can be injected or given orally. That means it can be injected to be introduced quickly into the bloodstream and then a pet owner can give it orally later. Sometimes these are real pluses when there is a very sick chin even if it is a very young chinchilla.

Definitely, later on Milo can ask the vet about other possibilities. The vet will probably learn a bit more about chins this way, so it isn't necessarily a horrible thing to ask!

I think we scared her away, LOL, Milo where are you??

I'm right here. I had to go to the store to get some things for Milo. I will ask the vet and see what he says.

So an update! Milo has stopped eating! Shes drinking. Starting critical care.

Arggg they almost always do that on Baytril. I had to hand feed to because of it. Good luck!

Regarding Baytril and bone growth--

Bowzer was put on Baytril at around 8 weeks old after leg procedure. (Here is the story.)

Now he weighs 505g, his mommy is 870g dad is 740g (was over 800g until recent gas issue), sister 860g, brother 710g. He isn't skinny, just "short." I cannot say that I know he is a runt because of the Baytril, but I do think it is the reason.

I'm hand feeding Milo right now. And shes doing fine with it so far.

ticklechin said:

No where did you say or anyone say they had first hand experience, this is what was said prior to you posting.

I see no one better then ChinVet to answer the question, a vet and a breeder. What she would say IMO would be the proper answer and end this discussion and satisfy any questions. I don't see a problem here with asking a expert.

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Dawn, anecdotal evidence is the basis of much of the chinchilla vet care used today - there's just not enough robust research carried out on chinchillas & drugs (as you well know) so I find it surprising that you are prepared to dismiss such evidence in this manner.

Not every vet has first hand experience of seeing chin kits have problems with Baytril but some have - depending on which vet you speak to & their experiences, you'll get a different answer - surely the whole purpose of forums is to pool collective knowledge, experiences, & anecdotes because often there is no definitive "proof"........... :hmm:

Having seen a gamut of side effects from Baytril in older chins, including a possible anaphylactic shock type reaction, I have to say I would not use it in a kit full stop (I won't use it orally in any chin now either) - so my reasons for not using it are multi-factorial & include the growth issue - but that's just me.



Having said all that, I would be very interested in knowing what ChinVet's thoughts on the use of Baytril in kits. :thumbsup:

Actually I was not dismissing it, a kit who gets sick from something like a ear infection or URI already has some immune system issues, so could it just be the "runt" and it was going to be small and the baytril was blamed, that was why I was asking for a "expert" like ChinVet's opinion.

is tri meth sulfa too weak for an ear infection?? maybe the kit can do baytril for the 10 days, then switch to tri meth?? just a thought. i havent had any ear or uti's here, so i dont know much about them, was just offering an option if it was doable.

I could ask if Tri Meth is doable. I might just have her on Baytril for 10 days and then have him do ear drops or something else!

ticklechin said:

Actually I was not dismissing it, a kit who gets sick from something like a ear infection or URI already has some immune system issues, so could it just be the "runt" and it was going to be small and the baytril was blamed, that was why I was asking for a "expert" like ChinVet's opinion.

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I have had a couple of kits requiring Septrin for infections & they have grown to expected size & I also know of another breeder who had a chin with an ear infection treated with Septrin who also grew to expected size............

I suspect that you recognise chinchilla kits, infections, "runts", immuno-compromise etc etc are complex issues - while I think it is too simple to blame everything on Baytril I also think there are risks involved in giving it to any chinchilla. No drug is without risk & sometimes it is all about minimising those risks (even if those risks are not "scientifically proven").

The Exotic Animal Formulary (3rd Edition) notes the following under rodents (including chinchillas) & Enrofloxacin: "May cause arthropathies in young."

So is this statement about rats basically how baytril should be used in kits?

The use of fluoroquinolones has not been recommended for initial treatment in pregnant and nursing does, or rats under 4 months due to the risks of cartilage abnormalities (Egerbacher et al., 2000), however, in cases where other antibiotics are not helping, or if the infection is deemed severe, the benefit of using fluoroquinolones (alone or in combination with other compatible antimicrobials) may in fact outweigh the risks.

ticklechin said:

So is this statement about rats basically how baytril should be used in kits?

The use of fluoroquinolones has not been recommended for initial treatment in pregnant and nursing does, or rats under 4 months due to the risks of cartilage abnormalities (Egerbacher et al., 2000), however, in cases where other antibiotics are not helping, or if the infection is deemed severe, the benefit of using fluoroquinolones (alone or in combination with other compatible antimicrobials) may in fact outweigh the risks.

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As a general principle that sounds pretty sensible to me. :yes:
Weighing up the risks is a clinical decision which is never easy.