Safe Treats

[Inca-bink]

I actually just picked up some hibiscus and crushed rosehips from a tea/spice shop for my own consumption - so I'd say if you can find one, that could be a good local source. My shop also had dried rose petals, and chamomile flowers, etc., but they're pretty big for that kind of specialty shop.

I share the rosehips with my girls, and I've heard you can give the hibiscus as well. Can anyone fill me in on the various opinions (I'm sure they're out there) on hibiscus petals as a treat? Also, I know chamomile tea is often cited as a good additive in certain circumstances, are there negatives associated with use as a treat? I'm usually very careful (I mostly only give wood as a treat, and supplement 2x a week) but flower petals seem to be a good low-sugar/calorie alternative for treat & reward purposes...

Thanks!

 

[manda-panda]

I always heard raisins were an 'okay' thing to feed your chinchilla...I've heard it from the shop owner, and all the other websites ive looked at for chinchilla advice.

 

[Ash]

Raisins are not. There are a ton of websites out there that have crap information, and most pet shops really don't know how to care for the animals they carry.

 

[kaykay]

Agree with Ashley. Just because someone tells you the grass is purple, do you believe them also? I would go with what most people on here say over most vets any day. There is so much more actual experience here.

 

[LannyCoop]

I am glad I know raisins arent good for chinnies.
Although the place I adopted him from gave them to
him all the time... But I will stop and start getting safe treats

 

[ABBY W.]

Ok, again, I disagree. Raisins are a perfectly acceptable treat when given in moderation. They are certainly loved by chinnies, do not do any damage, when given sparingly, and do help constipation (I can attest to that). I think we have a difference of OPINION, which is fine. But please do not state opinions as facts. There is no research showing that giving raisins or other dried fruits sparingly cause health problems in chinchillas. In fact, there are reputable researchers and breeders who give their chinchillas fresh and dried fruits on a fairly regular basis with no detrimental effects.

The bottom line is, what you give your chinchilla as a treat comes down to what you have learned and what you are comfortable with. You know your pet the best and know what they can and can't tolerate.

I also think it is dangerous to say "trust the people on here, more than a vet". I agree that there are many veterinarians who don't know much or anything at all about chinchillas. Most of these doctors will tell you if they don't know. There are some bad apples out there who pretend to know when they don't, or who are going off of misinformation. And, I agree that most of the people on this forum are a valuable source of information on basic chinchilla care and common health isues. BUT the advice given on this forum or any other is NO substitute for the advice of a skilled and knowledgeable licensed exotic pet veterinarian for health questions or problems.

 

[Bethany]

There have been chins that have died from getting raisons as treats. There was someone on the old forum that had it happen, and it was not given as a treat regularly. I don't understand why people feel the need to give raisons and fruit, when there are healthier alternatives.

 

[ABBY W.]

Did the owner have a necropsy done? Otherwise, it is difficult to know why the animal died. Perhaps it had an allergy to raisins. This could happen with any food to any chinchilla. Perhaps the animal had another medical problem, such as diabetes, and the sugar in the raisins caused problems. Again, that could happen with any chinchilla, and any food with a sugar content. The point is, it is hard to determine cause of death without a necropsy, and we shouldn't make assumptions about what happened.

We should care for our animals to the best of our ability using the factual and scientific information that is available. And, again, many of these debates come down to personal preference and knowledge of the individual chinchilla. More scientific research needs to be done to definitively answer many of the questions we have about these animals. Until then, I just think we should be careful to state our opinions as opinions, and not as facts. Everyone should have the right to make up their own minds about what they are comfortable with when caring for their own chinchillas.

 

[Ash]

Ok, have fun giving your chins a treat that is known for causing serious health issues in other species. Dogs, hedgehogs, and countless others. Grapes are known for causing renal failure. Raisins are just dehydrated grapes. Usually with other sugar added.

Also, most chins who die from being fed raisins don't die from the raisin 'itself'. They die from bloat, which is caused by FEEDING a chin raisins and other sugary treats, because their digestive tracts aren't set up to handle the sugar.

 

[whimmus]

I was following this post with some interest as I enjoy giving treats now and then and my chins certainly do. Of course, the evil raisin always comes up. When I joined this community the first time, I was new and didn't say much. When I said stupid stuff, I got smacked down. Now that I've got a year and five chins as well as a thick share of vet visits, I don't feel shy weighing in. I can certainly say my single year has been highly condensed.

First and foremost, the language I see occasionally here is unnecessarily harsh and certainly counterproductive to fostering a community. "you're killing your chinchilla with those treats"? Extending that absurd logic, every time I have a bag of chips or a beer, I'm killing myself. In truth, I may be hastening my own demise as these things aren't good for me. But as Abby qualified -- in fact, stressed -- in her initial post, the key is moderation.

If I give a raisin or part of one as an exceptional treat, either to reward, correct or entice behavior, it isn't going to kill my chinchilla. Some of you folks need to come to grips. They're not children. Any one of you that smokes in your house with non-smokers present is far guiltier than anyone who gives the occasional raisin to a chinchilla. I'd even extend that to parents who take their kids for fast food.

Daily? In multiples? Of course it's bad and will likely limit good health or hasten disease. But one? A week? or every several days? If the animal is healthy and takes the bulk of its nutrition from quality pellets and hay? Logic and the vast anecdotal evidence of this body of common knowledge we call the Internet dictates otherwise.

The people who bother to sign up and post here tend to keep their animals in far better conditions than the impulse buyer at a big box petmart who eventually tires of the animal, condemning it to a shorter life of boredom and neglect. The lucky ones find new homes. When people such as Abby, who clearly has several animals and years of experience, lists raisins with a caveat of caution, you're doing yourself a disservice with bellicose statements as you did. I've seen it drive people off and I'm sure it keeps others quiet in fear of being persecuted... especially, as Abby mentioned, over issues that revolve far more around strong opinions than hard facts.

How many times does coffee switch between bad for you and good? Or red wine? One a day was healthy only a few months ago. Now it increases cancer in woman. These are from scientific studies with $millions spent for far more important subjects. People. If scientists are fine-tuning their takes on our own diets and their impacts, I'm sure the complexities of long-term effects of occasional raisins in chinchillas is far from solved.

Is it an ideal treat? Absolutely not. Is it 'killing' her chins? C'mon, folks.

I feed my chins raisins on the rare occasion. I give them half a shreddie every day. I've read in the past that a variety of food and the occasional treat is one of the few tangible joys a caged animal can enjoy. These creatures are hardwired to find and exploit food. Playtime is secondary to that. If it knocks a couple years off what... 10? 15 years? Better those years be enjoyable for both owner and animal than paranoid about the odd dried grape. Given the junk sold in the stores as REGULAR feed and purchased by the ignorant masses that never find quality communities like this, I'm inclined to think your wrath, while ultimately good-intentioned, is misplaced.

$0.02.

 

[Bethany]

I'm just going to repeat myself and say if you feel the need to give your chin a treat, why not give a healthier treat.

I'm sure the complexities of long-term effects of occasional raisins in chinchillas is far from solved.

Is it an ideal treat? Absolutely not. Is it 'killing' her chins? C'mon, folks.

Here is what I think about them and this is just my opinion not facts.

I think if it is something the chinchilla is used to getting, then most likely it will not cause bloat. IMO it is the chins that have never had one that will have issues. However, I also think that there will be long term effects from them even if it is just once a week.

One a day was healthy only a few months ago. Now it increases cancer in woman. If it knocks a couple years off what... 10? 15 years? Better those years be enjoyable for both owner and animal than paranoid about the odd dried grape.

We have these animals and are responsible for them. I don't know about you, but I would like to increases my animals life not decrease it. If that means the treat mine get are actually good for them then that is just a simple decision.

My animals get Ryerson supplement, twigs, and the occasional treat that I make. They go nuts for their supplement and twigs. I have never given raisins even before it was bad. I like treats to have the added benefit of wearing down their teeth.

As far as them being toxic to dogs, hedgies, and ferrets, yes, but only certain dogs , if they have already had them then it isn’t going to be toxic to them unless they consume a whole lot in which case it is possible.

 

[Rhubarb]

Anecdotal Stories

We also give our chins the occassional raisin. I have never admitted that on this forum because of the OPINIONS on the topic. We also have a plastic wheel in the cage, another topic that evokes strong OPINIONS. We also have a flying saucer in the cage and when we took the plastic wheel out one of our chins became withdrawn and snippy with us. They don't chew the plastic so we have chosen to leave the plastic wheel in the cage. I would be interested to read the scientific reports (any from a peer reviewed journal?) that raisins cause bloat in chinchillas. As far as I can tell the opinions are based on anecdotal stories (as is my plastic wheel story) and not scientific fact. To each their own...believe what you want but stop attacking people for their choices just because they don't line up with your own.

 

[Bethany]

Granted this book does say fruit, nuts, and raisins are an okay occasional treat if it is at less than 5% of the diet.

http://books.google.com/books?id=JMTUKwzPEvwC&pg=PA480&lpg=PA480&dq=chinchilla#PPA484,M1

This is where I was going with the chinchilla that occasionally gets a raisin. The raisin/sugar can cause a change in the microflora and could possibly cause bloat, enteritis, or enterotoxemia.

http://books.google.com/books?id=JMTUKwzPEvwC&pg=PA480&lpg=PA480&dq=chinchilla#PPA480,M1

On a side note, the main concern with the plastic wheel is the spoke in the center and the diameter is not a large enough running surface. It makes them run unnaturally.

 

[whimmus]

Bethany,

Your reasonable argument, with links to supportive materials, is the track I wish more people would take with 'hot' issues like this. Obviously, raisins are not an ideal treat. I see raisins much more as a tool than a treat. They get them so rarely. The last time I gave raisins (a portion of, actually) was after baytril doses to a thoroughly miserable animal that wouldn't eat afterward otherwise. But if experienced owners have been giving them as occasional treats for years and their chins are fat and healthy.... great! Clearly, this isn't open and shut.

I find it ironic that so many people jump on this stuff and completely over-react to perceived threats to other people's precious puffballs. How soon they forget that this is a ranch/pelt-neutral forum and many contributors, while having pet chins like the rest of us, also have a herd as part of a fur-ranch operation. Guess what? Those chins die as part of the process. Hike up to the top of the hill once in a while and take in the whole view. Perspective is a wonderful thing.

 

[Ash]

One thing others failed to notice, is the person who was 'attacked' as you'd like to call it, isn't feeding just raisins, but a variety of treats that are unhealthy. Various dried fruits, yogurt, etc. Not just one raisin occasionally.

 

[ABBY W.]

If you read my original post you will see that I feed a variety of treats. This does not mean all of them each time I treat. I give ONE raisin, or ONE dried cranberry, or ONE piece of papaya. I also offer dried rosehips, shredded wheat, horse cookies, cheerios. I give ONE of these treats to my animals ONCE OR TWICE PER WEEK, which means they only get the fruit a few times in a month.

The point of the argument here though is not that you disagree with my choices, but that you choose to castigate me, and others who disagree with you, rather than simply stating your disagreement in a civil manner. Berating people as you apparently do makes them not wish to communicate with you further. Worse, it may cause them to not speak up in the future, if they need advice, for fear of your reaction. This forum should be about fellowship and learning. NONE of us knows everything there is to know about chinchillas. We all have something to teach one another that will better us as breeders, owners and enthusiasts and will serve to make our animals that much happier and healthier. In the future, perhaps you could be more open to differing opinions. I am certainly open for debate and new ideas, if done in a manner that is respectful, not demeaning and hostile.

 

[Ash]

I don't agree with feeding my pet a) a food that has been shown to cause problems in various species and b) a type of food that is shown to cause problems in chins in general.

Raisins and other sugary treats have been known to cause bloat in a chinchilla. That's not an "allergic reaction" to the fruit. That's a painful build up of gas in the stomach that creates digestive issues because the bacteria of a chinchillas digestive tract isn't meant to handle sugar. Most chinchillas die to this due to a lack of knowledgeable veterinary care and because it requires extremely aggressive treatment of medication/handfeeding around the clock/belly massages.

If you want to put your chinchillas at this risk, go for it. But sugary treats are known for causing these issues, and I'll choose not to feed them and not to say it's OK to feed them. If rosehips were to be found to cause similar issues, you can bet I'd not feed them, as well.

 

[ABBY W.]

Ok, I can respect that. I am aware of bloat and its causes. However, in seven years of owning and breeding chinchillas I have not had a single major digestive issue, so I feel comfortable continuing the way I do things with my chinchillas. I would certainly recommend that anyone who wants to give dried fruits to their chins do so in moderation, and introduce this as a treat slowly, monitoring the chinchilla's poops and behavior to make sure there is no adverse reaction. Also, it should be noted for anyone new to chinchillas, that fruits with a pit are structly off-limits. These fruits contain a certain enzyme which is sometimes toxic to chinchillas. So, please, non-pitted fruits only!

 

[Bethany]

The thing is you have seen the effects of raisins, you said it will loosen the stool in constipated chins. Have you ever wondered why. It is the same reason that can cause enteritis. There is a decrease in good bacteria and an increase in bad. You may have never had it progress to the bacteria producing a toxin, but others have. I can not prove this with necropsy results, because the results will not say consumption of raisin, it will say marked (for example) Clostridium perfringes.

I'm going to quote Alli's post on a different thread:

If you look at the basic biology of how a chinchilla digests it's food, it would only make sense to stay away from sugary treats like raisins and other fruits.

Chinchillas are hindgut fermenters meaning that they need bacteria in their cecum to assist in the digestion of their food. Without these bacteria, a chinchilla could not digest their food properly. Chins need these bacteria to process their food.

The bacteria in the gut that are responsible for fermentation are sensitive to diet changes. Under normal circumstances there's a balance of bacteria in their gut some of which digest sugars and others that digest the rest of the food. When you introduce sugar into this system, it causes the sugar and starch loving bacteria to grow rapidly and causes the normal gut bacteria to die off. Now you have a chin who's gut is way out of whack.

The beneficial bacteria that under normal circumstances digests their food has been replaced with sugar loving bacteria. So now your chin is going to have issues with digestion.

So, if you only give say, on raisin or half a raisin a week, at that time, the chin's gut is going to get out of whack from trying to digest all those sugars. Their body is just not meant to digest sugars, it's made to digest plant matter and fibrous material.

 

[ABBY W.]

I understand hindgut fermentation. It's not so much "good" and "bad" bacteria, but the two types work in different ways to digest different substances. One kind breaks down fibrous plant materials, the other processes sugars and starches. When a chinchilla's diet has too much sugar it can cause an overproduction of the one kind and cause imbalance in the intestinal tract. However, I also believe that their system is more resilient and adaptive than many people believe. In the wild, their diet varies a fair amount. Chinchillas are opportunistic feeders, meaning they will eat what is available. Most of the time this consists of roots, leaves, and seeds, but it can also include small insects and available fruits.

Again, I stress the key is moderation. Feeding fruits every day is bad; once in a while does no harm for most chinchillas. My animals are all healthy and happy, so I feel comfortable with treating them occasionally with a raisin, craisin, or bit of dried papaya. (Incidentally, all of my treats are purchased in the organic section of the store, and have no added sugar or preservatives).