(Update)Pneumonia Caused by Pasteurella

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AnnShh

AnnShh

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
312
Location
VA
Hey guys,

The vet called and said that Stardust died of Pneumonia caused by the presence of Pasteurella. This is apparently an airborn thing caused by living in the same room as rabbits. The vet thinks this may have been the cause of Ten-Shi's death as well, but since he was killed by a cagemate we assumed he died due to a fight... it could have been that he was killed because he was sick.

Anyway, the three other chinchillas were exposed to this as well- so they have been put on antibiotics as a preventative and my parents are working on moving the rabbit cage out of the room.
 
Do you have rabbits too in the same room? I'm thinking you do because of how she died, but you never know sometimes crazy things happen.

Anyways, rabbits and chins are not safe to be around each other.

SOrry for her death.
 
I have my rabbit and chinchilla in the sa me room, why is it not safe? They never come in contact with each other ..... should I worry about this?
 
jmdebb said:
Do you have rabbits too in the same room? I'm thinking you do because of how she died, but you never know sometimes crazy things happen.

Anyways, rabbits and chins are not safe to be around each other.

SOrry for her death.
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Yes, hence my parents working to move the rabbit cage out of the room. We were not previously aware that it was unsafe to house the two species in the same room.

Gizmo, rabbits carry Pasteurella in amounts that it is not harmful to the rabbit but it can be spread to the chinchillas and make them sick (the vet said it was airborn). Our rabbits and chins never came in contact with one another.
 
So the vet felt that your first chin did not die from getting the living crap beat out of it and going into shock or having blood loss? I wonder how he came to that conclusion.

I'm glad you at least got the right answer on the most recent one so you can take preventative measures with the remaining three. We'll cross paws everybody else is okay.
 
This really has me worried now. I live in a loft apartment so its one huge room. I've had the rabbit and gizmo together in the room for a year now. I've never had any problems. I just looked it up and saw that pasturella is already in a rabbit, but what would the symptoms be if she were sick with it? I could put her in another room but that'd be the bathroom and its small. I'm not sure what to do!
 
tunes said:
So the vet felt that your first chin did not die from getting the living crap beat out of it and going into shock of having blood loss? I wonder how he came to that conclusion.

I'm glad you at least got the right answer on the most recent one so you can take preventative measures with the remaining three. We'll cross paws everybody else is okay.
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He did not see the first chinchilla. Obviously he died from getting beaten up by his cage mate. What he thought was that potentially he was beaten up because he was sick. Some may believe that, some may not. Idk... we'll never know if that was the case or not. None of that matters now. What matters at this point is making sure the other three are ok.
 
Transmission of pasteurellosis from an infected rabbit is through direct contact with nasal secretions, including transmission through the air when the infected rabbit sneezes. The spread can also occur through licking open wounds; sharing water and food bowls, litter boxes, and toys; and carrying the bacteria on caregiver’s skin or clothing. The disease can be shared during mating (genital infections), and a mother rabbit can pass infection to her kits.


For anyone else curious...
Found it here...http://www.celebratingrabbits.com/stories/pasteurella.html
 
Jade, thank you for that info.

I am sorry to the OP that your chins past, but I am glad you have an answer now, and can take preventative measures.
 
Gizmo24 said:
This really has me worried now. I live in a loft apartment so its one huge room. I've had the rabbit and gizmo together in the room for a year now. I've never had any problems. I just looked it up and saw that pasturella is already in a rabbit, but what would the symptoms be if she were sick with it? I could put her in another room but that'd be the bathroom and its small. I'm not sure what to do!
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It is asymptomatic in the rabbit, it will not show any signs of illness. But chins would show signs of URI - sneezing, runny nose, runny eyes, etc.
 
You have been lucky Gizmo, if you can you should try to find another spot for your rabbit or the chin. I have heard of so many people that don't know this and have both species in the same room. One day I met someone that did this and I told her it wasn't a good idea and why, and she didn't believe me..UGH!!!! Unfortuanately poor Ann found out the hard way.

But just to let you know Gizmo, some species you can keep in the same room. I have two ferrets in the same room with my chins. [yes all in separate cages]. Certain species don't mesh well tho.

condolences again ann.
 
I had my first chin and a rabbit living in the same cage together. I didn't know it was wrong. The chin and the bunny loved each other and the chin rode everywhere on the nape of the bunny's back. I took her out one night before I went to work at 10 pm and she was limp and died right away. IDK what killed her, but I wouldn't keep both animals-that's just my opinion. I know others who can and do.
 
Gizmo24 said:
This really has me worried now. I live in a loft apartment so its one huge room. I've had the rabbit and gizmo together in the room for a year now. I've never had any problems. I just looked it up and saw that pasturella is already in a rabbit, but what would the symptoms be if she were sick with it? I could put her in another room but that'd be the bathroom and its small. I'm not sure what to do!
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It does not have to cause problems right away, I know with Giardia they can have it for a very long time and it does not effect them until their immune systems are compromised or they get sick from something else, then wham. I would move the rabbit and you have to wash hands, cloths etc. before contact to help not transmit disease. It is nearly impossible to do that forever. Some people get lucky and nothing happens, but I specifically asked my vet about this a few years ago and she highly suggested I do not get a rabbit.
 
I have important information for anyone worrying about this.

I lost my boy Leroy in March.

He stopped eating and developed Stasis, He had previously had x-rays to rule out root elongation, as he had eye discharge that did not respond to anti-biotics.

After a couple of days in the vets, he passed away after never coming round properly from a GA, he had had 3 in a short space of time and my little boy died painlessly as he had full pain relief and never came round properly.

His post mortem showed several things -

Impaction due to GI Stasis (and probable immediate cause of death)
Inflamation of the bowel (my vet deemed this significant but we are not sure what it meant in terms of whether it was affecting his health)
And Severe Pastuerella infection in the lungs.

He had been sneezing for a few days - but not for the length of time the infection would have taken

Leroy was 2 1/2 when he died. I had him from 12 weeks old.

I am in touch with his breeder. He had NEVER been in contact with a Rabbit at any point in his life; neither had his breeder, or myself, or anyone in my household.

It is my theory (and my vets) that like rabbits, Chinchillas can carry it and not show symptoms - with it flaring up in times of stress, like Rabbits.

Leroy's cagemate (who is still with me) shows signs of it when his tooth problems flare up (he is diagnosed with root elongation) he starts sneezing with occasional discharge. It is treated and when his teeth are causing less problems, he shows no sign of it. As soon as he starts eating less and has a dental, it flares up again - like it would in a Rabbit.

On Stitch's (his cagemate) X-rays, the infection was serious enough that it showed up on his lungs.

I thought people should know it has been proven in Leroy's case that Pasturella in not always caused by Rabbits.
 
AnnShh, I am so sorry for your losses. I hope your other babies are okay xxxxx
 
But just to let you know Gizmo, some species you can keep in the same room. I have two ferrets in the same room with my chins. [yes all in separate cages]. Certain species don't mesh well tho.
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OT, but, that must be really comfortable for your chins, having predators who would kill them if they had a chance living in the same room. Ask people who have had ferrets get loose and kill their chins if this is a good idea or not. I have ferrets. They are upstairs in my daughter's bedroom, with locks on their cage doors, and the door to her room closed at all times. I would never take the chance of having them get anywhere near my chins.

I agree Susan. It's lucky that the vet was able to make this diagnosis with a culture that generally takes a while to grow out. Maybe this is frequently seen in his office and he recognized the signs?

So basically one should never come into contact with a rabbit, because apparently they can spread pasteurella to every living thing on the planet? Many, many people have rabbits and chins, rabbits and rats, rabbits and dogs/cats/horses/kids. Basically, rabbits will spread pasteurella just by sneezing. So how would you ever know if you hadn't infected your entire family and every animal in it, just by owning a rabbit? I can honestly say in 9 years of owning chins, this is the first I've ever heard of this happening, and I know of a LOT of people who have both rabbits and chins.

I am genuinely concerned about this, and judging by the pm's filling up my inbox, so are others. People have owned rabbits for a lot longer than people have even known about chins, and I've not heard of raging pasteurella infections that should cause people to panic and have to get rid of their buns. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, obviously, but I'd be curious to know the particulars so that people don't feel so afraid to own their buns and their chins.
 
I remember it was suggested a lot on CnQ with buns about treating them like a chin in QT. Keep them in seperate areas of the house, washing hands between, etc. Rabbits can be tested, I believe, but there are false negatives. It was supposed to follow the same concept of keeping bunnies and guinea pigs seperated.

I used to work at a pet store, was around rabbits all day, would come home to my chins and had no problem with bringing stuff home to my chins. It's not something EVERY chin goes through, it's just a possibility. I know it was suggested to keep cats and chins seperate too, due to cats carrying pastuerella, but there are many forum members that have cats and chins and the cats are regularly in the same vicinity. I have 3 cats. None bother my chins, but they're often hanging out on my bed, 6' away from the chins. The chins aren't bothered by the cats at all.
 
I'd like to point out that there was no way Leroy had been near a cat either, we haven't got any and haven't had one for over 20 years.

It is entirely possible that Chinchillas can carry on their own, and elsewhere (on another forum) Someone else (apologises if you don't want this mentioned) has said that their own opinion (a highly experienced breeder) and their own, experienced vet believes that Chins can carry it in and of themselves as well.

I was shocked when the post mortem (I believe you use the term Necropsy) showed Pastuerlla as I had never heard it mentioned as an issue in Chinchillas before -

With more and more Post mortems being done, maybe it is coming to light and is actually more common than is thought in Chinchillas - How many died previously, that were just buired and not investigated? It must be a huge amount.
 
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