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chinchildren

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i have never had this many females litter in such a short time.

this morning at around 10 i noticed that the girl in the cage with the female who had the triplets on the 1st is in labor.

this is her first litter so i stuck around to observe. first kit came out and looked fine. 2nd kit came out and looked TINY. i went to run some errands so that i don't hover over her and came back about three hours to two dry standard v/c kits. one is 45 grs but the little one is smaller than any kit i have ever had and is 30 grs. looks fine, one eye open one not but just tiny.

for those of you who have had kits this small - what is the prognoses? do they sometimes make it? usually? how much help had they needed when they did make it?

i knew things were going too well and i would run out of this string of good luck i had...
 
Me personally? I would weigh the teeny one and see if it holds steady or gains. I personally don't mess around when they are that small. I have my stuff set up and ready to go. If I see even 1 gm drop, I will supplement a few times a day, just until they hit that 40 mark. Me and 30 don't get along at ALL. In fact, this is the first time (with Alecia's quads) that I've had a kit under 30 gm survive, and they are both growing and doing well finally.
 
thanks peggy even if that is really NOT what i wanted to hear.

some stories with good outcomes? by nature i tend to be a pessimist so i need all the help i can get. it does not help that she is a first time mom...
 
Psssht Shelli, that's just my bad luck. There are bunches of people who have had little'uns survive. I think I almost talk myself into my bad luck worrying about it.
 
hey peggy, betcha my bad luck is badder than your bad luck...

tunes said:
Psssht Shelli, that's just my bad luck. There are bunches of people who have had little'uns survive. I think I almost talk myself into my bad luck worrying about it.
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The smallest kit I've had here was 32g, he was in a litter of trips. I worried about him, being the runt with two bigger sibs and a first time mom, but I actually didn't have to do a thing. Mom lactated like a cow (I did use fenugreek though), all three kits survived without even fighting once, none of them even dropped a gram the first day, and the little one now is a healthy 650+g adult.

That's just been my experience though. I haven't had trips since, but next time I do, I really don't expect it to go that well.
 
I've had little 18 and 20, 24 and 22 gram kits survive just fine. I find it best to not touch them or play around at all with them the first week or two though. I leave them completely with their mother and only take the time to clean the cage or feed and water - but absolutely no handling if they are that tiny. I find the smaller kits need all the more time with their mother's.

I've had some small ones not survive, but the majority of the tinier ones ever born at my place in all the years I have raised them, do just fine if left alone. I have never bothered to handfeed them - so long as the mother has milk that is.
 
peggy, now THIS is what i wanted to hear lol.

so lilchinchilla - do you not weigh them? just let them be? the cage they are in is somewhat hectic (2 moms and 5 kits aged 6 to 1 days) so i am not sure if i should leave them all together (the other mom is not a first timer and i don't know if she would help or hinder)...

lilchinchilla said:
I've had little 18 and 20, 24 and 22 gram kits survive just fine.
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Small Kit

I don't know if you remember the Miracle Kits from last year. One weighed in at 24 g and the other was 30 g at birth. The smallest one only made it a month but the other is healthy happy even if a little on the small side. She is no different that the others and very sweet. So even that small they can grow to be normal.

Good luck on your little one.:winkers:

Sonia
 
If they are under 35 grams I start supplimenting immediatly. I had a small one born at 25 and drop to 20, she is still with me alive and 1 yr old. She started nursing on her own after she broke the 35 gram mark. until then she didn't even flip over to try
 
so lilchinchilla - do you not weigh them? just let them be? the cage they are in is somewhat hectic (2 moms and 5 kits aged 6 to 1 days) so i am not sure if i should leave them all together (the other mom is not a first timer and i don't know if she would help or hinder)...
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Well... my chins - each female has her own cage, so you might consider separating. I can't speak for your situation and how you raise them - I've never done that.

For my chins, they have always been in their own separate space. I only weighed them when born and checked gender, after that I left them alone with the mother (obviously I would look in on them to check they are still doing good - but as far as taking them out of the cage or playing with them - no - not as long as they are nursing well and look good- curled tail and kits with energy was what I usually look for.).

Of course if one of the kits was insanely bigger than the other, I usually will try to find that one a different mom to foster the bigger one. And I usually leave the little one with the original mom.

I found with the mothers who did have the small kits (they were preemies, usually with peach fuzz fur and super tiny.), not fussing over the kits or disturbing them, made it so they would spend more time with the kits and nurse them as much as possible.

It doesn't work for every kit, the odd one may not survive, if they are too weak to nurse - then you would want to handfeed but there is no guarantee even with handfeeding they would survive if they are too weak to nurse from their mom.

But if they are able to nurse and are nursing fine - then I do not disturb them at all by removing them from the cage or weighing them, etc.. for the first while (with exception of cleaning and checking to make sure they are bouncy, curly tailed happy little babies...).

It has always worked for mine and I've had a few litters of very tiny babies born on occasion. One time it was two in one litter, both only 20 and 22 grams...and they both did just fine with their mom, no handfeeding required.

And yes, even when fully grown, usually they are no more different than those who were born average sized. I don't have alot of them born here or nothing, but I have had a small handful of litters over the years with the odd preemie or preemies born in them. Had a few preemie litters with the recessive red eyed beiges back when I first started breeding them...though they don't have preemie litters like that no more (touch wood.).
 
At 30 grams its about a 50/50 shot here with no hand feeding. We have had them live when born at 17 grams before but the odds are not great.
 
I, too, used to have the occasional litter of preemies, some as small as 28 grams that didn't have a problem. It seems to have gone the other way, since I've changed feed, and made other changes, while learning the "do's and don'ts" on the forums!
I'd say my litters are averaging 37 - 40 grams now!
 
We have averaged around 50 grams for the last few years here with all kits born dead or alive put into the average.
 
Rickman said:
I, too, used to have the occasional litter of preemies, some as small as 28 grams that didn't have a problem. It seems to have gone the other way, since I've changed feed, and made other changes, while learning the "do's and don'ts" on the forums!
I'd say my litters are averaging 37 - 40 grams now!
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Holy moly you have some teenie babies Rick. I'd also say the average weight around here is 50. So far, the smallest baby we have had (thankfully) was 40g. Good luck with the little one Shelli. I know you'll be watching him like a hawk and I'm hoping he'll pull through just fine.
 
Shelli, I wish so much your little baby will make it! I remember reading quite a few miracle stories on CnQ so I hope this baby will be a miracle story on CnH. I'm not a breeder, nor could I ever be, because heartbreak makes me fat. But I know if I saw a tiny baby I would suppliment immediately as Kristy commented. It's like the preemie babies in the hospital, they get more than mamma's milk so I would say tiny chinnie babies should get more too.

I wish you the very best with this tiny baby.
 
I'm not a breeder, nor could I ever be, because heartbreak makes me fat.
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HAHAHA! So that's my excuse! ROFLMAO That was the first comment I read this morning and I almost died trying to laugh while hacking up a lung! Laurie - I love you. :)

Oye Rick, I agree with Therese. You sure do have tiny babies. What's the deal there? Are mom and dad small as well? What kind of food are you using? My average kits are 55-60 with single births, 50 to 55 with double births, and anywhere from 40 to 60 with trips.

Sorry Shelli. I know nobody is being real encouraging with their stories, but I just never give up hope anyway. Even with the wee littles I just keep trying until they tell me they are done. Good luck with him.
 
I haven't bred my chins in a while but there was definitely a time when 35 to 50 grams was considered average judging from what was posted on cnq. Has that changed? I remember years ago posting that I had a 72 gram baby and everyone almost fell over because it was "huge" LOL
 
We had a litter one time that they were I think either 24 and 26 grams or 26 and 28 grams and they survived with no intervention. Both grew up to be large blocky chins too. You just never know.
 
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