Sticky Urine

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Godofgods

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One of my males, chico, has had some sticky urine the last month or two. He lives in a FN with his son. They have always used the litter pans very well. Suddenly one stopped using the pan all the time and started going on the metal tray. It was only then i noticed it was quite sticky, since i have to clean it up each day when i get up.

At the same time i started noticing some unusual behavior from chico. He was hiding in his hut a lot more, rarely ever coming out. He didn't want his stomach scratched, which he always loved. He wasn't eating much hay at all, but he was eating his pellets just fine.

I had taken him to the vet a few times. They gave him some fluids under the skin, a round of antibiotics, and last time they checked him for diabetes. (which i was told was negative.)

Some where along the line, all of chico's behaviors went back to normal. He still is not eating as much hay but he is going to town on pellets. (Of course, i guess its true that my perception could be off. My boys have always eaten a lot less hay then my girls.)

The issue is the sticky urine is still there. And im at a loss for a cause. The vet was busy the last time i called, but the lady on the phone mentioned that he might want to get an ultra sound of chico next.

Right now i cant rly afford another ultra sound. Ive spent a couple thousand between chico and my ferret (who has a tumor) this year already. And with my disability and my dad dieing, im a bit stretched. Im also getting rdy to move soon and i would like to have this taken care of before hand.

But what would an ultra sound show that could cause sticky urine anyway? And are there any other causes anyone could think of?
 
The ultrasound would show any swelling, and/or stones or any sludgy particulate matter collecting in his bladder. Some animals are genetically prone to stones/sludge, whereas some get them from their diet; from excreting excess salts and calcium. Some stones are visible by x-ray...have you had one of these done yet?

Have they checked his urine under a microscope for bacteria or crystal particles? What antibiotic was he on? It may have been an antibiotic not well suited for UTI's, or the causal bacteria might be resistant to the antibiotic prescribed.

I went through sticky/smelly/reddish pee with several of my guinea pigs over the years. Some had stones, which were surgically removed, some had persistent UTI's, which were eventually treated with suitable antibiotics after my vet sedated the pigs, catheterised them, then took samples directly from their bladders to culture for bacterial resistance.

Unfortunately it is an expensive process. Best of wishes xxx
 
Newt said:
The ultrasound would show any swelling, and/or stones or any sludgy particulate matter collecting in his bladder. Some animals are genetically prone to stones/sludge, whereas some get them from their diet; from excreting excess salts and calcium. Some stones are visible by x-ray...have you had one of these done yet?

Have they checked his urine under a microscope for bacteria or crystal particles? What antibiotic was he on? It may have been an antibiotic not well suited for UTI's, or the causal bacteria might be resistant to the antibiotic prescribed.

I went through sticky/smelly/reddish pee with several of my guinea pigs over the years. Some had stones, which were surgically removed, some had persistent UTI's, which were eventually treated with suitable antibiotics after my vet sedated the pigs, catheterised them, then took samples directly from their bladders to culture for bacterial resistance.

Unfortunately it is an expensive process. Best of wishes xxx
Click to expand...

No x-rays were taken.
He was originally on Chloramphenicol Palmatate but chico haaaaaated that stuff. So he was switched to Bactrim Syrup.
They took a urine sample for his diabetes test but i don't no if they looked at it at all under a microscope. Tho im guessing not.

Ill try and call them tomorrow and ask what there prices are for that.
 
Was the urine fresh when you cleaned it up? When urine dries a bit, it can get sticky especially on hard surfaces like a metal pan. If he's not showing any other symptoms regularly, his bottom isn't covered with urine, isn't dribbling any urine, and is eating/drinking fine and otherwise urinating normally, I'm not sure I'd be concerned.

X-rays would show a stone most likely if you wanted to look into things further, though they may miss something that an ultrasound could find. Usually we do x-rays first and then recommend ultrasound if something looks off. If they were only testing for diabetes, they most likely only did the stick test to look for glucose in the urine. However a full urinalysis usually includes a urine sediment exam to look for crystals/bacteria.
 
everything else seems fine at the moment.

Of course the pee is much easier to clean up when its fresh. Since i have a girl who loves to not use the litter pan at night, ive gotten used to that being dried up a little when i wake up. But when chico's dries up some it get incredibly sticky. I go to wipe it up with a paper towel and it rips the towel to shreds and leaves parts of it stuck to the pee on the metal tray.
 
Called today to check out prices for a few things.
Urinalysis to check for bacteria and crystal particles was 60.
X-ray 1 view 95 - 2 view 140
Ultrasound 150 - tho i just had one on my ferret a few weeks ago and it was about 190.

Guess a urinalysis is a good re-starting place.
Is there anything that would show up on an x-ray that could cause sticky urine that wouldn't show up on an ultra sound? The prices of those two were much closer then i thought they would be.
 
Not sure about that, sorry. But the usual course of action is to do the urinanalysis and x-ray first, then ultrasound afterwards if necessary.
 
Yea thats what i figured. But im running very low atm.
If an x-ray could be 140 and an ultra sound 150, - if an ultra would pick up the same things that would show in an x-ray anyway plus more (in this case), i could skip that.
Thats why i was wondering.
 
received a message this evening. The urinalysis results were back. They said chico had glucose in his urine. The two vets are supposivly discussing it and will contact me tomorrow.
 
So I guess that would indicate diabetes then?? Did he have any other diabetic symptoms?
How is the little guy doing?
 
The vet called today but i didn't recognize the number so i didn't answer. He said it was still positive for glucose and probably a diabetes. I called him back but he had left the office. So i will have to wait until Monday.

What i don't understand is Chico already had a diabetes test done just recently and they said it was negative. Now there saying he probably does have it because of the glucose?

Other then the sticky urine i haven't noticed to many other symptoms. He doesn't seem to want to be pet on his stomach as much anymore. And they hay intake seems to have gone down a bit, but his pellet intake has risen. (I think, its hard to tell exactly with two chins in a cage.)

If he hadn't stopped using his litter pan to pee in, i wouldn't have even noticed the sticky urine since i wouldn't have had to wipe it up each day,

The one other thing i just found out from the vet visit is his weight. They weighed him around 650ish and they said they had him listed on a previous visit at 700. But as i look through these print outs i don't think they rly update the weight on these sheets all to often. Because i have one showing 650gr on dec 2009, then every single one since then shows exactly 708gr every time (even this visit which he weight around 650.) So i don't know about that. And i don't have a scale atm to do this myself.
 
Vet just called. Said its probably a mild diabetes since the glucose was found in his urine twice, and his urine has been sticky. He said its not a case for insulin shots twice a day (Which my chin will be happy to hear.)

He did recommend a pellet food that was higher in protein and very low in any sugar type content. His current pellet food has min 16% protein. But the ingredients list does contain some things like molasses. Does anyone know of any foods that would fit this better then what he is currently on?

Also he mentioned maybe try wetting the hay or even soaking the hay in water a little bit to try and get him to eat more of it (since he has been not eating much hay lately.) And maybe trying some different types of hay as well, like orchard. - That was the first time i ever heard of anyone mentioning to wet the hay some tho. :hmm: Has anyone ever tried that before?
 
Higher in protein? Since even if this is not diabetes and some kind of liver/kidney/endocrine disorder-all that can cause elevated sugar levels, and say if its actually diabetes, diabetes is hard on the kidneys, I would think you would want a low protein diet, and the hay thing I have never heard of-chins don't encounter wet things, why would they be attracted to that?
 
What food is he currently eating? I agree with Dawn - it doesn't really make sense. (any of it)

I would be inclined to switch to a timothy based pellet (like American Pet Diner), and supplement with a little Critter Be Better. I also would not moisten the hay. If he is turning his nose to it, try something new and see if that makes a difference. Wet hay is gross.
 
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ticklechin said:
Higher in protein? Since even if this is not diabetes and some kind of liver/kidney/endocrine disorder-all that can cause elevated sugar levels, and say if its actually diabetes, diabetes is hard on the kidneys, I would think you would want a low protein diet, and the hay thing I have never heard of-chins don't encounter wet things, why would they be attracted to that?
Click to expand...

i think they hay thing was suggested as an attempt to entice them to eat more hay. And maybe a little spray or soak would give the impression of being more fresh. Which is why he he added to try some different types of hay. (Since chico isnt rly eating his hay)

This is what all 5 currently eat. It was recommended to me by a breeder around 2006-2007ish.
When my brother showed up at the door asking me to watch his chin for a while (and i never had even heard of a chinchilla), chico was on some store brand with the 'treats' in it. I switched him over to this food. The very first time i mixed it into his normal food, to slow ween him off of it, he ate every piece of this new food and wouldn't touch his old food or the 'treats'.

I never heard of American Pet Diner or Critter Be Better. Ill also mention that he shares a cage, and food, with his son. Neither of those two are eating much hay, but only chico has this glucose problems it seems. They are in a FN cage so they could be separated if the son shouldn't get hold of a supplement.

One final thing ill mention; since the vet said the insulin shots were not a option, he rly wasn't sure what else to do in this specific case as far as standard treatment. Might be why he suggested something as odd as that soaked hay.
 
I would go with the American Pet Diner Timmothy pellet, unless I am blind I don't see any added sugar such as molasses.



Guaranteed Analysis




Crude Protein (not less than)
Crude Fat (not less than)
Crude Fiber (not less than)
Crude Fiber (not more than)
Ash (not more than)
Calcium (not less than)
Calcium (not more than)
Phosphorus (not less than)
Sodium (not more than)
Vitamin C (not less than)


14.00%
2.00%
18.00%
25.00%
12.00%
1.00%
1.50%
0.50%
0.75%
93 mg/lb




INGREDIENTS:

Suncured Timothy Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Canola Meal, Ground Wheat, Monocalcium & Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Brewers Yeast , Salt, Condensed Lignin Sulfonate (binder), L-Ascorbic Acid Phosphate (Stabilized Vitamin C), Mold Inhibitor (Propionic Acid, Acetic Acid, Sorbic Acid, Benzoic Acid, Ammonium Hydroxide), Yeast Cell Wall Extract, Calcium Aluminosilicate, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Methionine, Copper Lysine, Manganese Methionine, Cobalt Glucoheptonate, Flavoring, Folic Acid, Chromium Picolinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Yucca Schidigera Whole Plant Powder, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Silicon Dioxide (carrier for liquid antioxidants), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite (source of Vitamin K activity), Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, D-Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Tribasic Copper Chloride, Ethylene Diamine Dihydroiodide, Sodium Selenite.
 
Just to make sure, would that be safe to put both my boys on? Cause the only way i can see making it so Chico gets those pellets and not the kind he is currently on now would be to either separate the two boys or make it so only that type of pellet food is in the cage. (and i don't want to separate if i don't have to.)

One other question about sugar content. My girls don't show any diabetic problems like Chico does. Is it safe to keep them on there current food? I didn't realize it had molasses as an ingredient, and i know sugars arnt to good for them.
(with my dad dieing, me moving, and disability, im pretty tight atm so i cant help but notice the current food is around $9 for 25lbs and the Timmy Chinchilla pellets is $7.19 for 2.75 lbs. But of course ill take them off it if its going to harm them.)

How much Critter Be Better would you generally use? It says how to give it, and you cant over does, but nothing about how much on avg a chin should get/need.
 
They can both have it-is the son older than say 3 years old? I would not want to put a young chin on it since the protein is low, but older chins its ok, fur may look scraggly over time. Soak the hay, use the APD on both and see how it goes. Molasses is usually not a issue, but when things like this come up, you just adapt to the situation, if the others are fine, leave them on the feed.

As far as chinchillas in general, it seems there always has to be a trouble maker in the village.
 
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