Space required for breeding & exercise

[Mcrew7]

Okay, I've read quite a bit on breeding chins and how they should be at least 600g to breed or more, I've heard some people say that they will use smaller males to jump start a slow producing female. My question is, if you breed chins but have them in a colony set up and they get lots of outside time and whatnot is it okay for them to be a little under 600g or just a little over that but still breed? I ask because I have a chin who was bred a couple times, shown, placed well and has come to me, she was about 760g or 780g when I got her she is now around 630g....she's housed with another female and is eating, no health problems, teeth nice and orange, and she's very active also her poop size and production is great. She gets out everyday as well as has a flying saucer which she LOVES to run on. It seems almost all my chins start out around 700-850g then drop down to around 600g or so. They all have an unlimited supply of hay and pellets. Since the switch to Manna Pro Sho I've noticed an increase in weight across the board (They were eating Mazuri). I'm not going to lie, I have bred chins and I have 1 who is currently pregnant (no play time or running wheel for her!) I don't like those small cages some breeders use (not knocking them down for their practices) but is it a must when breeding? If so I'll quickly change my breeding practices. I'd like to also add that all of my chins came from good well known breeders or small hobby breeders who used chins from well known breeders. I care very much for my chins and I want them to be happy. If anyone cares to help me and even mentor me I'd be forever grateful! By the end of this month I'll be done with this semester in college and I'd love to learn even more and even see someone's herd and hear what they have to say for improvement on my herd. I've read, and read, and read some more on chinchillas and I know so much but I learn the best when being in person with someone of greater knowledge, I'm really looking for someone in the area to take me under their wing and help me make the best decision for my herd! Before anyone jumps on me about breeding yes I know the risk, yes I had kits die on me, yes I've dealt with prolapse, I've got two females now that won't get along and I've accepted that, I understand chins can turn on each other, and yes I have money set aside for problems that may arise. I'm breeding for health, quality and hopefully size once I figure out if giving this amount of exercise is okay or not, it's jut I give them the option to come out and go back in on their own (I set the playpen up around a cage and let those chins out that way). I've dealt with malo as well unfortunately the pair of standards I had (No they didn't breed thank GOD!) was a dud, the male had malo and about 6mons after having him I noticed the signs, as for the female she didn't have malo but was instead attacked by her cage mate and after being put on meds she just didn't fully recover and slipped away :cry3: I should have taken her to a different vet but at the time I thought the vet I went to would be okay for just prescribing meds. I was wrong as I have read many different things and I've grown so much more and have realized I failed her. So I've got some kits that I've produced and am unable to breed them because I refuse to do so until I get another standard pair to breed them to (waiting to grow my kits out a bit more and have them evaluated if not shown first!) Sorry my post is so long but I just really want to excel and produce the best that I can produce

 

[tunes]

It's my opinion that females who are in breeding should not be out having run time. It could cause a miscarriage, loss of a kit due to mom giving birth while she's out, risky weight loss, dehydration, etc., etc.

It's great to try and treat your chins all like pets, but if you're breeding, then they are breeders and should be treated that way.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

Size - i have had some females drop weight after going into breeding. Your chins may be dropping weight due to the wheel. I would remove it and see if that's the issue.

You dont have to use breeding runs - many people use other set ups. But you do need to provide a safe environment for kits. I personally like breeding runs because they are baby safe, easy to clean, maximize space and you can shut dad out without taking him away totally. You might find you want to try having a couple so you can put moms in and then when babies are weaned/older they can go back to bigger cages.

There are several good breeders in North Carolina - Tiffany (threewingedfury) and Kayla (lsknc) are both in NC and could give you valuable advice. I highly suggest you attend a show and meet people and talk with the big guys. There is no research that can be substituted for experiencing a show and seeing what judges see. There is a show in Ohio in May and October, and will be another one in the south (location tbd) in January if you can make them. You can bring your chins along and have someone take a look at them and help you determine if they are breeding quality and what good pairings would be.

 

[Mcrew7]

Thank you Tunes & Volunteerchin22!! I never let my females out if they've been with a male, better safe than sorry! I love them as pets and breeders but I see I can't have both at the same time, looks like I'm not going to get my cake and eat it too in this situation. Does the same rule apply to males? Since they aren't the ones carrying kits is it okay for them to have extended play time and a wheel but still visit females and breed? Also the pregnant chin has not had access to a wheel. I do plan on going to shows, I hate I missed the one in NC this passed Jan. in Kings Mountain

 

[Shahna]

I would not worry about having wheels in your colony cages. I actually would not recommend it.

To answer your question, no, breeding does not have to be done in the smaller cages. I do most of my breeding in colonies. My cages are 24" x 24" x 30" and I have up to 3 females and 1 male in a cage. Colony breeding requires a great deal of patience and constant monitoring. Introducing my animals can be extremely time consuming and sometimes very frustrating. You also need alot of cage space, as your females should be removed from the colony and placed in a baby safe cage once they are pregnant. There is alot that goes with colony breeding, so I would suggest doing a ton of research beforehand. A mentor is a really good idea...

If you click on the Chinnytown USA tab on my website, you can see a picture of the colony cages I have. They consist of a wood house, 2 shelves and a fleece tube / ledge.

As a "general rule", I don't breed a female that is under 650grams, but as I'm sure you've read on other threads, you can't judge a females ability to litter strictly by size. There have been very large females that have been unable to pass a kit. Keep in mind what you are breeding for. Size is one of the judging criterias at show. Why set yourself back with a smaller animal?

 

[Mcrew7]

Thank you Shahna, those pictures are great! No worries I WILL get a mentor to make sure I'm on the right track, this forum has been so helpful and has really cleared up the gray areas on the types of set ups I can have and treating the chins as breeders and not so much as pets.

 

[arf2184]

First, size and weight are not the same thing. Are the chins you plan on breeding the size you want their offspring to achieve? Most important with the girls, is the size of their pelvic opening large enough to safely birth kits?

Whether you choose to breed smaller or light-weight chins or not depends on your own personal goals. Some folks like massive chins, some (like me) prefer more mid-size chins. Some people breed dwarf chins. Not many (if any) choose to breed for small chins. For shows, larger size is more desirable, but only if all the other traits are good too. If you have a smaller animal that has really exceptional fur, you may still choose to breed him/her with a larger animal that also has nice fur.

Second, if a female was in 700+ gram range when I got her and is now down below 600g, I would not put her in breeding until I had a good idea why she lost weight. Diet, wheel/excessive exercise, or stress could cause weight loss with no other symptoms...or maybe she was just really fat and overweight before in which case you need to consider if she's really the size you want to breed for or if she was simply an obese small chinchilla when you bought her.

Some chins lose weight while in breeding, but I want that weight to be up when I first put them in breeding. Usually it just takes a break for a few months to get it back up again.

For cages, you do not have to use runs. Many people don't. Really the only requirement is that the cage be baby safe. No gaps wider than 1/2" and no tall cages or high shelves to fall from. My cages are 24"x30"x20" with one shelf. Some people prefer no shelf so mom can't escape the kits for long periods.

 

[Mcrew7]

The females I have, have all had at least two litters before I got them and they can safely pass kits. They are of good size, they look a lot heavier than they weigh, lol. I guess the weight loss can be attributed most to all the exercise I give them. Honestly if it weren't for the scale I would not have noticed the weight loss. I would say my chins are mid-sized, defiantly not over weight, but not underweight either even with the weight loss. I'm breeding for health and fur quality most of all. I want chins that are clear of health issues like heart murmur, malo, fur chewing, etc, I also want those chins to have good fur quality. Size is important, I haven't shown what I've produced and I know that's a factor on the show table. Glad to know not everyone breeds for massive sized chins! I was starting to think I was all wrong because mine aren't super huge but are by no means tiny. The lightest chin I have actually looks as large as the heaviest one. Thanks for your input Arf2184!

 

[starleomach]

There should be no wheels for breeding animals. It is a dangeer for pregnant females and kits once they have been born, they can be flung or crushed by the wheel. and like stated above size is more important than weight. I have a tiny girl at my mom's that weighs 650, but she is just solid and is there as a pet she cannot be safely bred. I think your weight loss has more to do with the wheel than anything else. I breed in colonies and sometimes see a weight loss when first introduced to the colony but nothing drastic