Some dog training questions.

[Midwest Exotics]

My family & i got our first puppy about 2.5 weeks ago & is 8 weeks now. He's great. Cute as can be, for the most part starting to get potty training & isnt too bad about his crate. (Will even go back in when he's tired & ready on his own.) Things have gone better than i have expected, but we still have a few questions & im sure that will continue as he grows.

One of our questions (which im sure more will develop as i think of them & of course as time goes on) Anyways, when my husband leaves for work in the morning he obviously lets the dog out to do his morning business.

He was for the first two weeks great about just going back in & laying down until my son & i got up to take him back out a few hours later.

This morning it started.:tease: He barked/whined for over an hour after being put back in the crate. (The crate is in our bedroom) so my husband moved him into the other room to spare me a few more hours of sleep. Well, that was nearly impossible as i could still hear him quite well.:cry3:

My question is, i know from what i've read that i shouldnt use the crate as a source of punishment, which i totally understand. BUT how do we punish him or at least let him know that barking like that is a no no when he's in there. I told him no several times, i tried the shush & be quite, but obviously he doesnt know all those yet. (No, he's getting better with) but it didnt seem to phase him when he's in a barking frenzy. All i can imagine is him being like one of those dogs that never stops. hahaha

Another problem i've noticed is when i tell him no about something whether it be not to chew something, biting at my son, or chasing the cats he decides to bark back at me & sometimes growl a little. Kinda like a teen thats talking back to the parent. He's not bit at me or lunged at all, so im not sure if he's trying to be mean or just vocal too? Of course if this could turn into a situation where he thinks he runs me, this will have to change ASAP because WE run the house, not the furry creatures. =] If anyone has advice & or suggestions on that i'd love to hear why he does that. He mainly does it with me, not my husband. Perhaps its my voice, but at any rate, he's going to have to stop.

I dont want him to not bark ever, i understand thats what he does for different emotions, but how can we train him to stop barking on command or get him to realize barking isnt going to get him out of the crate & only good behavior gets him out. IE not barking & whining just because he wants out or just because he sees us. (although even seeing us doesnt always stop him, i think that creates more of a problem a good portion of the time.) We do stick to not getting him out unless he isnt barking, other than sometimes in the morning when chris gets him out. Maybe this is contributing to all of the other behavior?

I kinda feel like im doing something wrong, but this is my first puppy(ive always had older dogs that had already been pretty good in the training dept before getting here.)- the easy way out. hehehehe

My biggest thing is i want us all to be happy, including the dog & cats. While he's barking, i dont think any of us are happy really, including he or our cats too!

Overall, we are crate training now, but are hopeful that we wont need to have the crate out to be used all the time & could slowly phase it out when he reaches adulthood & can be trusted about pottying & chewing. We want to eventually have him out all night so he can sleep in our room on the floor. Will keeping him crated be harder to train him not to go on the floor when he's older & free range? I know i've also read that crating is a good way to show the puppy that he CAN hold it & doesnt have to pee every time he feels he has to go. I have noticed when we have him out running around on the hardwood floors that he does pee quite often & its generally not big amounts, so i'd imagine he's going to go, not going simply because he HAS to. I am proud that he's getting closer to the door with his accidents, but i also dont know how to teach him to tell us he has to go??? Any advice? He's still very young & im not too frazzled yet, but want to make sure we are on the right track from the start.

We have a set of bells on our door(to help notice if my son is fooling around with the door) so i thought that may help with training too. I thought having him move the bells with his nose would be a good idea to tell us. He wouldnt have to bark, just jingle. =]

How should we go about training him to use those to tell us he needs to go out?? I have some ideas, but im not really sure if there are better ideas that will make this swifter or not?

We got him some new treats as the first ones he wasnt really happy to get & of course that made me feel like things were slowing down. He loves his new real liver treats & is quite the mad man to get them.

I knew owning a dog would be hard & a puppy would be harder. We arent frustrated, we just want to start training him now & correctly so we have a fairly obedient adult when the time comes. (And yes, we have seen Marley & me) =]

Well, any pointers we get will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Oh, ETA When crate training, does that mean he's got to be in the crate pretty much 24/7 unless we are hawk eye watching him while he's out? Or does he need to go back in the crate all the time other than a bit of time after he's goes outside? Im a touch confused.

 

[Rickman]

Kate - since he is your first puppy, I'd try to get him into a training class, as it's just a lot easier! You don't mention a breed, but some can just be "hard-headed," and need professional help!
I once obtained a GS from a girl who had taken her to training 3 times, but "failed"?
Apparently she liked me and my voice tones, as within 10 minutes, I had her rolling over, which she had never been taught - but wouldn't do anything for her owner!
Dogs can be strange!

 

[Midwest Exotics]

Yeah, we are definitely putting him into some other training, but wanted to keep working from home & i dont know that they would give much advise as far as home training. We have the rest of his life to work on sit, stay, etc. (although, we have started that a little already.) He's almost 9 weeks, so i'd have to find out when the soonest he can start a class is. Anyone know?

My husband has had several puppies over his lifetime & has a little more know how when it comes to them, but of course, i dont always agree that he knows everything. =]

Our pup is a lab! <3 I will add photos at some point! =]

He's by no means a bad dog, at all, but the dos & donts & recommends are what im really looking for to help. Even if we take him to a class, they arent going to (more than likely) come to our house & show us how to train him to tell us to go out or stop barking in his crate...I dont think anyways?

Persistence is key is what i keep telling myself.=]

 

[3CsMommy]

Depends on the trainer, actually, whether you'd get at home help or not. Some will come to your house and see what you're doing "wrong" if you indicate that home is where the behavior problems start.

Part of these problems, I would say, come because he wasn't with his litter until he was 8 weeks. The only dog I ever got from a puppy stayed with his mom and remaining siblings until he was 12 weeks and the differences in his behavior compared to what happens when people buy pups at 6 weeks was *amazing*. I definitely think a professional trainer should be on the list for your little guy, as soon as you can get him to one.The natural lessons he'd still be learning from his siblings now can be made up for by humans, but if he's your first, *you* need to learn how to teach him properly.

Good luck, and we like pictures.

 

[alli713]

When your puppy is barking in his kennel are you going into the room to tell him no, be quiet etc? If so, you need to stop and just ignore his barking all together. By going into the room, he's getting what he wants, attention. If you can ignore him for however long, after a while he will learn that by barking and whining, he's not going to get anywhere. Only let him out or go into the room when he's quiet.

As far as barking at you when you tell him not to do something, yes that's him kind of talking back if you will. He doesn't really understand why he can't do something. Instead, give him something else to do, like a new toy or chew toy.

After only 2.5 weeks you've got a long ways to go, and he shouldn't by any means understand everything right now. Puppies are a lot of work, and take some time to get the hang of how they're supposed to behave.

 

[Melissa]

My dogs are crate trained. They know it to be their home/safe place. Koa learned it as a "safe place" because I put him in it his first night here(strange place from the streets) and he has loved it ever since. He will actually go in there himself if Im mad.. either at him, Lola or even if Im yelling at the phone.. he will run to the cage. He will also go in there to get away from me when its time for meds.

Lola on the other hand didnt learn so easily. She had really bad separation anxiety and cry and cry and cry when she was in the cage and couldnt see me. Through out the day I would put her in the cage and do some cleaning in another room, or vacuum the house or take a shower. I wouldnt talk to her while she was in the cage. Unless you have them trained to know what "No" means you can say it all day long and they just hear your voice. So they get some kind of reward/gratification. So I eventually ignored Lola behavior until she stopped crying and calmed down. Once she did I would give her a treat and speak to her in my calm soothing voice telling her "good girl." Now she is super easy with the cage. She will go in when told and stay quietly until its time to come out.

Remember when training animals.. Bribery is key! Lots of treats and petting once they do the action. Just dont repeat the command 20 times until he gets it then give the treat. You are training them to wait a few times before listening. And remember.. if you do give the treat give it right away when the action is done. If you told them to sit and he sat and wait a few seconds and he look away you just rewarded the looking away. Not the action of sitting.

Ive trained my dogs by NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free). If they come up to me and want to be pet, I ignore them until she stops and then I give a command and when they do it then they get the reward of a pet or treat. Its actually quiet cute. Lola will come up and do random tricks without being told to because she wants some lovin'.

With this Lola knows "In your cage" "Sit" "down" "paw" "other paw" "sit pretty" "whisper" "bark" "no" "where's the baby"(that is to go find Koa) "Bone" "ball" "in my hand"(to release an object) she sits in front of her bowl until I release her with "ok" to eat. One time I actually forgot to release her and walked away and came back to her laying next to her bowl looking at me like WTF. Once I said "ok" she scarfed her food down like she has never eaten before. She also knows "Are you going to come up?"(for the bed or couch) and a few other things I cant remember right now.

They both know when I say "ay!" to stop whatever they are doing.
Koa knows "sit" "paw" "come" "in your cage" Koa was sick when I first got him so I have babied him a bit and didnt teach him as many commands. I didnrt want to put too much on him at once. Which is wrong of me.. but now that he has gained some weight and all tests are good we are going to go back to NILIF with him very soon. Dont tell him though!

Oh yea! Dont let your pup bark back at you. You need to have the last "word." Make some kind of noise or say something back. Koa has done it a few times to me. But only when I do my mean man voice. I was on the phone one time doing my mean man voice and Koa barked at me in what I think was an attempt to get me to stop. So I mean man voiced him back and he stopped. You need to impose your dominance over them. Get them to be submissive to you. And Never be afraid to get bit. Thats when it happens.

Good luck with the pup! And we better be seeing some pictures soon!

 

[Brittney]

When we first got Nola, she was 10 weeks and we started crate training her. She screamed for I'd say about 3 hours. She was so loud you could hear her from outside the house; people probably thought we were beating our dog. She eventually got used to it and now goes in her crate just to get away from everything. She sleeps in my parent’s room. Sometimes she sleeps on the bed, but most of the time she will go in her crate. My mom said she has started to associate the sound of my mom grabbing her glasses off of the nightstand with waking up. We never close the door, she just sleeps in it because that's her place, but she knows not to run out in the morning until my mom says it's ok. All we did to train her was just leave her in there and ignore her and not let her out until she has been quiet for 5 minutes straight.

My dog is nuts though. She failed puppy class twice, so we had a private trainer come to the house. That helped a little, but only really taught her tricks. We had/have a problem with her howling (she's part beagle) and jumping on people and barking at them when they come over. We worked so hard to get her to stop, being consistent with our commands, and nothing. She's just way too high strung. She's a beagle and ridgeback mix. She gets things for a day, then gets bored and just half asses things now. Uhg. We love her though, she's just not so bright.. She still hasn't learned after being her for over a year that she can't run through the glass door. :rolleyes2: She kills birds and barks at every moving thing.

We took her to rattlesnake avoidance class here in AZ. It's where they have a live rattlesnake and they put a shock collar on the dog and shock them when they show the slightest amount of interest in the snake. Nola got shocked about 50 times and still, she was determined to get that snake. They told us to leave before the shocking harms her or she gets to the snake.:duh:

Next step is probably Cesar... lord help us when he turns away and leaves.

We use NILIF also, but in order to get the attention she wants, we have her lay on her side or give us a high 5. Instead of lying on her side, she leans slightly and looks at us out of the corner of her eye.. And instead of a high 5, she gives us 10...

She's a crazy, spastic puppy. I really hope she will grow out of it (She turns 2 in November).

Good luck with your pup though. Labs are supposed to be really easy to train.

 

[Midwest Exotics]

Thanks guys.

We know we got him a touch early, but the place we got him from was 4 hours away & we also didnt want to place a non-refundable deposit on a puppy before looking at it & couldnt hold him without one. And of course we wanted to visit the breeders facility before making any choices. Then, we didnt want to have to travel back another 8 hour day to go pick him up only a few weeks later. He's been vet checked & have even scheduled to hang out with some friends for a puppy play date as they too just got a new puppy that is the same age.

Alli- No i didnt go to him to tell him, i figured that would only make matters worse as i had said when he sees us that doesnt help for long anyways. His crate WAS in our bedroom, so when he'd bark i told him no, then my husband moved the crate to a different located & the barking continued another hour or so. I suppose telling him no while in the crate could give him the right amount of attention to want to keep doing it just to hear me talk, even if it is no & not positive attention?

So what im gathering is, there is no way to punish him (punish seems like a harsh word, but i think you know what i mean.) (or let them know its bad) from bark in the crate other than just letting them do it until they dont anymore? I can handle it, but i just feel badly, i guess. We will have to crank up the TV or radio. haha

I do realize, as also said before that he's only a little over 8 weeks old & of course i dont at all expect him to know what everything means or not to do simple things. He's a puppy & we understand & respect that. I just want us to start off on the right track with him. I personally would prefer to train him mostly ourselves, but also have a friends mother who trains & hopefully will help us. I dont like the looks of most of the classes ive seen offered via petsmart, so i need to find something a little more our style & of course a nice price range for something private.

I have always heard that labs are very easy to train & i have already seen the brains he has, he's very intelligent already. We cant wait for him to be an adult, but dont want to rush his puppyhood AT ALL. SO cute! (Esp trying to climb up or down the porch steps.) =]

All in due time, im sure he wont be potty trained for a while yet & im certain we will continue to learn new things with how to help train him & what fits all of us best, but any techniques that work well anyone is willing to share would be great. Links, books, etc. =] We want to have a great dog that people arent scared of annoyed with when they come over.

This coming weekend we are going to our lake cottage, im wondering how excited thats going to make him. He loves the water already, but wont be let loose anywhere near it.

So far he's been more than great though. My son loves him to bits & he loves to run with him. He also enjoys his nightly few laps around our garden when we check it. He's still quite curious of our cats, but they only let him so close before giving him the warnings he's ventured in their zone.

I love that he's still small enough to hold & wants to be held often, esp when he's tired. Such a ham. I will post photos later tonight if i have the time.

Thanks again for the comments. I feel like i should already know all of this from years of owning an adult dog & being around other dogs, but still have my questions on the best & easiest methods.

 

[Brittney]

It took our puppy a week to pick up potty training. There were a few accidents here and there, but she picked it up. They say that 30 minutes after they eat or drink to take them out to potty (their little systems are so small that food and water go right through them), right after they wake up any time, and before they go to sleep at night. If they potty in the house, tell them "no" firmly and take them outside. Praise when they potty outside. Eventually they will get the point that going potty outside is what they are supposed to do. I think the moment we realized Nola was house broken was when she ran to the back door, sat down in front of it, and let out a whimper, we took her out and she did #1 and #2 outside. We were so proud!

 

[alli713]

I think at this stage the best way to teach him not to whine while in his kennel is just to ignore it. It shouldn't be too much longer before he realizes that doesn't get him anywhere.

Like others have said, you can work on it throughout the day too, where you put him in there for a short amount of time, just allowing him to getting used to being alone for periods of time. I'm sure being so young he's also crying because he's lonely. But with age it should get better.

Lila did whine some when she was a puppy and I'd put her in the crate but I always ignored it. she soon learned that whining didn't get her anywhere. Where as my parents had a pug, and when she would whine in the morning they would get up to let her out for potty and to run around. So you can guess that they never got to sleep in, with her learning that when she whines she gets to come out.

 

[Midwest Exotics]

Sounds great! I just wasnt sure if we were supposed to try stopping him when he does it or ignore it. He is pretty loud(even from a little one) haha but nothing we cannot tolerate. As said, i just feel badly, because i know he's more than likely doing it because he's lonely. He loves kaiden & wants to play from the start of the day to the end.

Im sure time will prove to solve his whiny behavior.

Thanks again for any & all input!

 

[Spoof]

I can handle it, but i just feel badly, i guess. We will have to crank up the TV or radio. haha

This is the answer to most of life's problems.

My friend's Christmas gift from their parents last year was a Corgi puppy. It was a learning experience for me as I'm not a dog person and would never, ever live in a house with one. I was renting from them at the time and it was a surprise, so had to be there for a few months.

She potty trained very quickly by simply taking her out every few hours and watching her. By the second day we could tell when she was going to go (start squatting) and say the word "potty". Then after she was done give her a treat. By the end of the first week there were only three accidents total, by the second/third week she started asking at the door by herself.

The crate training was easy - just put her in and ignore her. Like everyone has mentioned the key is to give them NO attention - as Cesar says; no look, no touch, no eye contact - and add no voice to that! She still sleeps in a crate in their bedroom. She went through a "toddler" stage at about 4 months where she would bark/cry/whine/scream after being a perfectly silent puppy. Just keep on ignoring. Particularly if they came home and didn't let her out - it's good to come home and do things and not let them out right away, provided you know they don't have to go.

Now she's 10 months old. The only problem I ran into (they don't care) is that she now begs at doors constantly. If there's a door and you're near it, she'll beg to get in/out regardless of her need to go potty. Annoying, but I just ignore her when I'm over, let them deal with it.

They've taken all of the Petsmart classes - the puppy class they did for socialization, but she now knows a list of 40 tricks too. Too bad you didn't like the classes near you, they were very helpful for them and they met a lot of nice people.

 

[Midwest Exotics]

Yes, i agree training will help a lot. We are most definitely planning to do it, but are waiting a while yet as our Vet recommended due to vaccination ages, etc. Once he's all on track as far as age for certain shots we can get him in, but the Vet doesnt want him going to places like that until he's protected. I believe 16 weeks he said. Ive got a little more time to look around & or to contact our friends mother.

Im anxious as i know Indus (dog) will love it. He's starting to catch onto some of our commands already, i cant wait to see what all he will learn!

 

[arf2184]

With the barking and whining in the crate, once its starts ignore it as said, but if you notice he typically starts whining at certain times (like after your hubby puts him back in the morning), try and stop it before it happens by giving him something to do on his own. Kongs stuffed with dog food (don't overfeed, subtract portion from meal time) will keep a puppy busy for a while. Once he figures it out though, you may have to switch to peanut butter or something sticky that he has to take time to lick it out. You have to give it to him BEFORE the barking and whining starts though.

Good luck with teething! Crate training will help with that, but it can be a rough time for dog owners. Labs tend to like having things in their mouth anyway. We had three lab mixes teething all at once at one point. Anything that was on the floor was fair game for being chewed to bits.

 

[Siren]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I did see some posts that I agree with.

If he is being naughty in the cage by barking/whining/howling. Do NOT tell him no. Do not go look at him. If possible make sure he doesn't see you at all.

I've had some people tell me when a dog does quiet down, then go into the room and reward him. However, if he starts barking when you walk in, leave and ignore him again. Eventually he will associate "I bark, they ignore me. I don't bark, they give me attention". If you enter the room and he is not barking, then let him our or give him cookies.

 

[Midwest Exotics]

So far things are going much better. He's definitely getting the word "no" more. His actual crate came the other day, so he seems a bit more at ease with having that & i put a sheet around it. That really seems to have helped. He does still chew just about everything he can & generally wont let us pet him because hes too busy trying to nibble. We are slowly breaking him of that & when we run him around like crazy & he's tired he will lay in my arms like a baby.<3

Potty training is still not definite, but he's showing signs of improvement, which makes us feel THAT much better. As of yesterday he only had two accidents & all of them were right in front of the door. I think once we get him to see he can tell us things will be looking up a lot swifter. I have been trying to take him out about every 20 to 30 mins, which helps, but there are still a few accidents. All in all he's been such a joy to have.

He's getting so big already, im sad there will be a time i can no longer hold him.(easily) haha

We took him to his first trip to the beach last weekend, he LOVED it & even did REALLY well without a leash & staying with us. I did become a little overly paranoid at one point though. A HUGE boxer(much larger than most, i cant remember what special breed they said he was) - but he was huge, Indus went up to him & wanted to play, their dog was VERY well behaved & even tried to share his toy with Indus. It was super dooper cute.
(of course being off the leash isnt going to be my ideal situation most times, but my husband wanted to let him be free for a while so he knows to keep up with us regardless if he has on the leash or not. So far so good.)

He already knows fetch & is getting close to being a master with sit. For only being about 10.5 weeks, i think he's done pretty swell. Hooray for him & hooray for us!

He goes back to the vet on Sat for his next round of shots & then we may ask the vet to refer any trainers, even though im pretty sure i know where we will be taking him. A friends mom trains shepherds, so i think she may get to have fun with him.

I really wish we had some friends that had bigger breeds too, he would love to play. The first moment he heard another dog bark while we were out was the first he's heard since we took him home.. he looked thrilled. I know he'd love a playmate, but all my friends have teeny dogs. Boo. Chris did mention one of his co workers got a dog though, & i believe its a lab mix, so hopefully we can get a date set up to get them together since they are close in age.

I REALLY need to get some photos posted, i just havent had the time. Between work, the animals, kaiden, & our new home we have been BUSY BUSY this summer.

Anyways, i just wanted to thank everyone again for any & all responses, any little bit helps when youre new to something.=]

 

[Melissa]

For the chewing of everything.. Lola used to do this even when she wasnt teething. Give him lots of toys or bones or even cow hooves to chew on. Whenever Lola gets new toys like that she plays for hours. I figured it was boredom with her old toys. SO I rotate them around and give new ones as often as possible. Once I figured this worked with her she stopped chewing my leather couch.

 

[Midwest Exotics]

OOOO yes, he has LOTS of toys & chews, i keep them out throughout the areas he gets to play in to help deter him from chewing where he shouldnt. When he chews something he shouldnt i tell him "NO" & give him something to chew of his own. So far he hasnt been terrible about chewing & generally a no makes him keep moving.

OH i wanted to ask... loofah, like what people give the chinchillas, are these safe toys? I read that they were & as i had quite a few left from cutting them up from the chinchillas i took a while loaf of one & tied & knotted some fleece on them. Great homemade toys, but my husband insists it couldnt be good for him to eat?

Indus' favorite toy consists of the loofah toy, so i'd hate to hear its not a good choice, but thought it would be great for him to chew, great for his teeth, & natural if he eats it.

I was also not really clear about rawhide. I've read that it is & isnt safe, i wouldnt let him have it to chew while we were away, but again, he really seems to enjoy it. Would hooves or ears be better options?

 

[arf2184]

Never heard of giving loofah to dogs for a toy, so I'm no help there. Rawhide is kind of one of those things where you have to read both arguments and decide for yourself hat you want to do.

I don't do rawhide because there are so many other things they like, its not really worth the chance. Someone gave me some toys for the dogs that included rawhide once. We let them have it at first, but we ended up having to take it away because Bear kept nearly swallowing it and choking a little. He can't have tennis tennis balls for the same reason.

 

[3CsMommy]

I've given Cleo both rawhide (she loves it, we just take away the small pieces as she chews them off) and loofah toys. The loofah was not such a hit, but she does play with it occasionally.