Rights our nation was based upon...

[Riven]

I was wondering what happened to the rights that the US was based on. The right to speech, the right to freedom of religion, all that.

What happened to people standing up for what they believed instead of sitting around *****ing about it?

Why can't people pray in school anymore? Because only the people against it stood up for it. The people who believed they should keep it were worried about upsetting everyone by standing up for their rights.

If you say something "wrong" people jump all over you, tell you are inconsiderate, or that was a bad thing. Even if you said you were just wondering about something, not that it was wrong, or bad, or anything. Is that illegal now?

I'm not saying to live without consideration and compassion for things, but why do people have to always tell everyone else what to do, or not to do, or that they're a good person, or a bad person just because they don't have the same ideas or beliefs? Is it because people today are more selfish? More spoiled, getting everything they want and not think about why? I'm not christian, but I don't care if other people are, I respect their beliefs, and I expect them to respect mine in return. I don't get mad if someone tells me Merry Christmas, or God Bless You.

The US was founded on having different beliefs, and not wanting to be controlled with everything they do, but they all agreed to work for the same goal in general, even if the details about it were different. If someone wanted to regulate our beliefs today would we band together despite our differences for the cause?

 

[Anne-Lise]

I don't live in US, but I guess our nations was based on pretty much the same values as yours was. And recently lots of things came up in the media and I just thought...oh my.....where are we going....

There was this 'Christmas tree' incident, when our Québec Prime Minister used the term 'Holiday tree' in order not to have non catholic people jump off because of the term...Gosh it's a TREE!!

And that end of the year show, when the humor used was not to the taste of some people..... That's the worst.... We can't even make jokes anymore, some people will feel offended and declare war.

But I think media has a lot to do with some debates. Stuff that would go unnoticed is taken by journalists and talked about for days and days, asking 'is this right', when people wouldn't even take time to think about it. These days, we make a big fuss of little thing and it turns into a big huge debate (not talking about that thread hehe...)

 

[Riven]

That just reminded me, our school puts Christmas lights up, and crosses at Christmas. I think it's weird, but not offensive.

One thing I found weird too was, they came home with some church looking papers one day, they were coloring sheets, not even just like...Jesus with a lamb or anything, something you'd see at like bible school. I wasn't offended by it, but I did think that if they're going to send home Christian based stuff, they should do like Hanukkah and other religions too.

My kids attend public school btw, not a private or catholic school, which would account for the religious preferences.

 

[Anne-Lise]

Your schools are more 'religious' than here I guess, cause we would never see something like that here.

 

[amazonangie]

Well, the schools here don't salute the flag anymore because it states "In one nation under God". I can't believe that some people made such a huge fuss that they took that out of schools.

 

[alwaysloneheart]

Riven good point...
I am the least patriotic person there is... I will not fly a flag (no offence to the people who fight for this country) but when you have legal rights and you are denied them because of someone elses personal opinion and not the law... hum bug... I will NOT post a postage stamp upside right (by the way that is illegal)
when they can pray at the presidents ignaugeration (spelling) and you cant pray in schools... how can you trust the people who claim they you cannot pray in schools but turn around and do it publically...
this is only a small part of everything... and prayer is not the only thing I would/could complain about... but life has taught me to shhhhhhut up... just live and be happy...

nothing is ever normal here... sanity runs thin... hard work runs on the rampage... satisfaction around every corner...

 

[pricklesnquills]

I am always annoyed by our country's intolerance for freedom. Freedom to believe what you want and freedom to say what you want. That's pretty much gone now. And you always have to worry about 'political correctness'. By golly, I will not conform to it. I will say Merry Christmas.....and I will pray in public and I will say what I think. That's not to say that I can't be kind about it, but, it's really getting crazy. Everyone is so easily offended now. agh, yes, I pet-peeve of mine, haha

 

[oxchincerelyxo]

I am sooooo anti- being polotically correct...it makes no sense!!!


I believe that you should be able to feel/think/want/say what you feel/think/want/say. Don't get me wrong, I have some views that others disagree with, but that's fine with me if they do. I will not flaunt them if it makes them uncomfortable and I will not try to sway them with my beliefs, but we both have the right to agree or disagree...


I think that it is absurd the way that people abuse the systems and take hold of what is not truely theirs...I have a friend who is gay and came out his Junior year. Later the same week he came out his car was trashed by the jocks...and the school didn't do anything about it. For what??? For someone choosing something different to you?!?

I have a friend who didn't stand for the pledge, the teacher told her she had to and she refused (for religious beliefs) and she was suspended for two day in a PUBLIC SCHOOL


it is just insane...I have been told that I need to "silence myself" in order to "meet the needs of our social society" because I moved from the East coast, where we are brutally honest, to the West coast where everyone is polite and politically correct. I miss being able to be honest without being punished...



sorry for the rant-I'll stop now before I get myself in trouble *rolls eyes*-favorite debate thread so far!!!!!:heart3:

 

[3CsMommy]

What really bothers me about "getting along" with the majority is that we're often accused of "rocking the boat" or "being dramatic" when we're trying to defend ourselves from someone in the majority who *can't shut up about being the "right" way*. Two days ago, I was called a "stupid looser" for not liking the Pittsburgh Steelers, but I was also directly asked what football team I cheer for. Dinged if you do and dinged if you don't, (and at work refusing "small talk" with my customers isn't an option; it's a write up).

I'm not Christian. I don't care if someone else is or not. I also don't want to hear anything about it from anyone else, particularly why they made the "right" choice and how I'll come to "correct myself" some day; that's a personal decision and none of my business or someone else's concern. Proselytizers and 'recruiters' for a pet cause cheese me off worse than bad pet owners. I see it as another incarnation of the selfishness and self-righteousness that I can't seem to escape in the States. Never been too far abroad, but heck, even in Canada I felt more accepted because the beliefs I hold different were never made public issue in the first place.

*That's* the goal that I think the idea of "politically correct" came about to reach, but like so many things when turned over to the media (among other polarizing influences), it all went tilt and fell short.

 

[oxchincerelyxo]

Maybe we are all just oh too hopeful of the possibilities of humans...will we ever learn to play nice???? And will those like myself always be shamed for being different?!? It really bothers me, you see it everyday and it's just sad. I feel like in the past 50+ years we have come so far to show so little...

I just wish it was different...:yuck:

 

[Rickman]

My biggest peeve is; "Press 1 for English!" 99% of our grandparents had to learn english when they came off the boats, and the test for citizinship was only in english, and to take the test you had to enter legally! Now there's talk about forgiving that!
I'll stop now.

 

[Parkerspetchins]

Riven good point...
I am the least patriotic person there is... I will not fly a flag (no offence to the people who fight for this country) but when you have legal rights and you are denied them because of someone elses personal opinion and not the law... hum bug... I will NOT post a postage stamp upside right (by the way that is illegal)...

nothing is ever normal here... sanity runs thin... hard work runs on the rampage... satisfaction around every corner...

If you feel that way, why do you live in the US, maybe you would be happier elsewhere?

It would be impossible to please everyone, there is always going to be someone/a group of people that get the short end of the stick no matter what. We don't live in a Utopian Society and never will. If you have a problem with something then do something about it.

 

[tunes]

Ditto and then some JM. People have fought and died for the right to fly that flag, and I'll be d**ned if I'll spit in their faces with a comment like that. I am proud of my country, proud of being an American, despite what the politicians are doing to it. There isn't any other country anywhere that allows the freedoms that this country does, has the things that this country does, or offers the things this country offers.

And not putting a postage stamp the right way? Aside from the fact that my OCDness would force me not to do it, I think it's just childish and pointless. Do you think the entire postal service is going to come to a halt because you put a stamp on upside down? What exactly are you trying to prove?

I agree, if you don't like this country and what it stands for, there are plenty of other countries out there to choose from. Perhaps you'd like to give the middle East a shot? I hear they are wonderfully receptive to women and individual ideas.

 

[HedgeMom]

I will NOT post a postage stamp upside right (by the way that is illegal)

No, it's not. Not in the US. See, all those people who BELIEVE in this country and fought for freedom, got you the right to be stupid with your postage stamp.

 

[oxchincerelyxo]

No, it's not. Not in the US. See, all those people who BELIEVE in this country and fought for freedom, got you the right to be stupid with your postage stamp.

I know this is a thread about rights, including to feel and speak freely, but I don't understand little things like that either. I think the reason that our rights get taken away is because we abuse them with our childish and selfish behaviors. I feel like we should fight for our right without trashing everyone and taking every little stab in the process.


Turning a stamp upside down is only going to get eyes rolled, not fists pumping.

 

[kaykay]

No, it's not. Not in the US. See, all those people who BELIEVE in this country and fought for freedom, got you the right to be stupid with your postage stamp.

Thank you for stating that, I couldn't have said it better myself. I have several friends, cousins, family members who are in Iraq right this second. This country may not be perfect but who is and we've come a h*** of a lot farther than any other country. I'm proud to be an American.

Go live in another country if you don't like it here, see how many freedoms and rights you get elsewhere. Then maybe you'll appreciate what our fellow Americans have fought and died for.

**Off my high horse now, what a way to come into a forum!

 

[justDeb]

See, all those people who BELIEVE in this country and fought for freedom, got you the right to be stupid with your postage stamp.

:clap:

 

[InkedupTara]

No, it's not. Not in the US. See, all those people who BELIEVE in this country and fought for freedom, got you the right to be stupid with your postage stamp.

HM, I agree!

I agree it is your right to be ignorant. It is also your right to not like this country but please keep in mind, in other countries you are NOT allowed to speak so freely against your government and country....why don't all the nay sayers go there then, I wonder?

 

[Anne-Lise]

My biggest peeve is; "Press 1 for English!"

Oh my Gosh!!! I am not the only one to know that song!!!!

Actually, I showed that videoclip (if we can call it videoclip) to my ESL students and we worked on the lyrics. They got sooo into the debate, it was quite interesting!! Just too bad they didn't speak English during the conversation.....

 

[Rebecca]

I'm an agnostic Jew. I just thought I'd state that so people know where my views are coming from.

Why can't people pray in school anymore? Because only the people against it stood up for it. The people who believed they should keep it were worried about upsetting everyone by standing up for their rights.

Actually, the people who believed it should have been kept in public schools did fight for it, but eventually their numbers shrank to the point they couldn't win in an election. I don't know if you are saying prayer should be allowed in school, but if you are, I can't really say I find it a bad thing. Praying to a specific deity/deities is something that should be done in an institution for it. I've heard people argue that anyone who doesn't want to doesn't have to participate, but the only way that would really work under our public school system is to have the teacher lead prayers for every represented religion. Again, I'm not saying that is what you are arguing, I'm just saying it as a response to some other things I've read.

I don't get mad if someone tells me Merry Christmas, or God Bless You.

Me neither. Especially God bless you, because I know it is, in their mind, one of the nicest things they could say.

One thing I found weird too was, they came home with some church looking papers one day, they were coloring sheets, not even just like...Jesus with a lamb or anything, something you'd see at like bible school. I wasn't offended by it, but I did think that if they're going to send home Christian based stuff, they should do like Hanukkah and other religions too.

Did they have jewish or secular alternatives? I know we used to have similar activities in school, and they would always have a non-christian alternative.

My biggest peeve is; "Press 1 for English!" 99% of our grandparents had to learn english when they came off the boats, and the test for citizinship was only in english, and to take the test you had to enter legally! Now there's talk about forgiving that!
I'll stop now.

courtesy: http://www.xkcd.com/84/

As for saying the pledge of allegiance, I do say it, even the god bit. I'm not sure that I want to live here for the rest of my life, but for now, it is the country that is taking care of me, and for that I salute the flag. In my mind, there are few things more disgusting than disrespecting the soldiers, past and present. I have never supported the Iraq war, but my support for the soldiers themselves has never once wavered. The concept always seemed so bizarre to me.

While there are some things about this country that make me so mad I've actually cried, I appreciate the fact that at least here I have the chance to change them.