Possible California White Tail Chinchilla

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chechinchillas

chechinchillas

hmmmmmmm
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
546
Location
CIRCLEVILLE, OHIO
I purchased an extreme white violet chinchilla from Vin Somavia a couple of years ago and the pedigree puzzled me because neither parent was a mosaic. He started out a very deep blue violet shade with white rings around each ear, both eyes and nose. The white rings have become more prominent as he has aged. Recently he has started to get flecked with white all through his coat evenly, lightening. His first litter with a Godin black velvet violet carrier produced a very blue violet male that at age 2 has started to get the white rings in the exact same places. Please post any information that you have on the white tails. Thanks!
Here is a video of him on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWrDSubhX4M&feature=channel&list=UL
 
I have a couple violets here who do that. No white in their lines, but they get the white rings around the ears, eyes, and nose. A white violet gave me a standard vc, no white on the tail. She's an adult now, 2 years old, and her face is turning white.

Chins are weird.
 
That's true, strange stuff can happen with breeding. I wouldn't have thought much more about it, but when his son started to develop the exact same markings at an older age, like the white tails do, that's what made me think that this may be from that line. Tabitha has been really helpful in sending me some information on them. It was thought that it may be a recessive trait, but in this case it would prove otherwise. It's very hard to find information on them, so I am hoping some other breeders out there may have some.
 
Che, even when I was first getting into chins and I saw him for the first time I remember saying to you he reminded be of a white tail. I think it would be really awesome if he in fact turned out to be one!!! Keeping fingers crossed!!!
 
It looks like recessive white (white tail) to me too!

the only information I have on recessive white is this...

"Recessive White or as some call 'White Tail' were uncovered by The PSK ranch in a herd they'd purchased from another rancher. Their Class Champion Standard that had been in breeding for a while, developed white rings around the ears and tail (hence the name "White Tail"). They realized that its color was changing. The chin as well as some others who were showing to be in a lighter color phase were separated from the others and started in a breeding program. Over time, progress was made, the white coloring takes a long time to show (they're born Standard and develop growing white markings later). On rare occasions, they noticed some of the offspring starting to change at about 8 months to a year of age, but most of them either change much later, or even not at all. We seem to think it is based on the amount of 'White Tail' the parents have, similar to the Ebony gene. In theory if the parents have a lot of white (once the color changed) and changed early, the kits have a better chance of changing early. No one is sure if they are really recessive. It could be cumulative trait that's not recessive. With White Tails, if the parents are Heterozygous White Tail, the kits are "possible White Tail carriers" AND "possible White Tails" (since any that are Homozygous don't show at birth). PSK ranch moved and most of the herd was sold to the Bowen Ranch. The rest were purchased by the ToV Ranch from the Bowen Ranch, and are at the ToV Ranch in a closed breeding program. "
 
I'm pretty sure Riven was working with recessive whites before she sold out as well. You might check with her.

As I mentioned above, I have two violets here doing the exact same thing as what you show in your video, as well as a standard/vc. If they do end up being recessives, I'd sure like to know how that happened as the two violets had no white in their lines at all. I asked Becky about it once and she said she has had violets do the same thing.
 
When Serenity had the white tails, she only got them to produce about 3 or 4 times. She doesn't know much more about the mutation than anyone else. When she got them, many of the original white tails were in their late teen years and had not produced for several years. Serenity does not breed anymore and is completely out of the chinchilla community as far as I know. After they went to her, they were at Furball where older animals were probably pelted out for low/non-production. Any of them that were kept on went to Bowen/La Paloma with the rest of the Furball herd.

PSK had a lot of very good violets, the white tails were not "isolated" in their herd. They didn't even know some of the chins were white tails until they had already delivered several litters. Anything out of PSK lines...no matter how far back on the pedigree that brand is, has a chance of carrying whatever it is that causes the white tail coloration.

Also, they are not called recessive whites. The name Pete and Sue gave them was "white tail" because the first one started with a ring around the base of his tail and they never knew for sure if they were a recessive mutation or not.
 
I'm looking forward to the replies to weather it could be a white tail. So could this happen to pretty much any color? The reason I ask is I have what was a med/dark tan that has similar rings around the nose, ears and a pure white tail and lightening with age now almost a homo tan now. I have asked a couple older breeders but no reasoning of why the white areas.
 
Aurora has been considered a white tail violet. Her white rings continue to get larger. None of her kits that I know of have ever developed the white rings. I have one of her sons, he is two years old and has no rings.
 
I have about a dozen violets and v/c's that are the same but if the white tail is supposed to be a recessive mutation mine are not.
 
I can see how this might be an interesting development for the pet market but I can't really see much use for this in the fur market...Guess it wouldn't matter if they aren't showing rings until 2 years old...
 
The markings on the white tail are really neat looking. For anyone that has any white tails now, does the white spread out more than just rings around the ears and tails?

Cheryl
 
I know of a gal who bought her 'standard' boy from a pet store, and now he's about 4yrs old I want to say, and he has white rings around tail, ears, nose, and his whole body is starting to lighten up. I love the coloring.
 
I showed the male's son at the last MCBA Nationals and he got a first place, but he was not showing the white rings yet. If you did show a violet chinchilla with the white rings would it be in the mosaic section or violet?
 
This is a topic that has spanned many discussion boards (most of which closed) over the last decade...and before that, well they existed before that too but that's as far back as I can go ;)

Nobody really knows a whole lot about them. I wanted to work with them years and years ago to develop a "consistent white". At that time and still, nobody's talking. I know a few breeders are working with these still. Close lipped breeders. I know many breeders and pet people a like who've had this crop up in their chins...eventually. I used to be mesmerized...now...meh. They've lost their luster for me.

I feel that it's a more common anomoly than many realize. Over the years I've seen it happen in gray appearing animals, violets and ebony/ebony crosses. Is it a mutation all it's own? IDK. It usually only happens in advanced age and I've NEVER seen it progress to the point of a solid white (or even close) animal.

SO, while it's a bit neat...it does need worked with to figure out it's properties and a LOT of lineage tracing would need done to learn. I don't think the ebonies that have had this happen are of PSK lineage though I'd need to check.

If anyone decides to work with these in a proper way I'd love to see anything conclusive.

http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31468&highlight=burgess
 
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