Muddy Bellies (can I get some pics)

[Vyxxin]

So, I read across an old thread today about muddy bellies and I was hoping some of you all could post pictures? I'm talking bellies that are noticeably off color with NO EBONY in the known lineage. I've had a few animals knocked on the show table for bellies that weren't sparkling...but none ever born here that were too off white...simply not a bright white. I'm looking for animals that could easily be mistaken for having ebony lineage...bellies that are severely off color. Any pics much appreciated!

 

[Dreamlite]

I know cheryl (poetures pets) has a pure standard named barely that clearly throws ebonies. He has a 6? Generation pedigree of nothing but standards I believe.

 

[6Dusters]

I'm not sure if you were looking for standard photos or mutation photos. But I'll throw Clementine in here for you. She showed great with the belly getting knocked. Her belly is off. She's a Hummel female with no eb in the pedigree. So I put her with an ebony male.
Color starting to wrap due to dark standard to dark BV IMO.

 

[Vyxxin]

6Dusters- looking for any and all pictures, grays and mutes alike. How bad did that chin get knocked for her belly and did you discuss what to breed her to with anybody? I think I'd choose the same path (throw it in my ebony lines) but curious why others do what they do

 

[chinsNdobermans]

I have a kit right now out of a violet mother and vc father who has a muddy belly. She's going to a pet home this weekend because of it, which makes me sad, because otherwise she looks like she'll be a nice animal.

 

[poetrue]

Ange - Dreamlite is right. According to Barley's pedigree he is a pure standard, but his belly is so wrapped that he showed as an ebony and did very well! lol. I'm currently out of the country but if you search through my facebook photo albums for Barley there are probably photos of his belly up there. I have him mated in with my ebonies.....surprise there right?

Dee that muddy bellied violet/vc kit would have been great for my lines! I tend to have the opposite problem. I keep having these kits born with sparkling white bellies out of 2 ebony/wrap parents! I've even had judges comment on how nice their bellies were. Meanwhile I was hoping for violet wraps or ebony VCs!

Cheryl

 

[6Dusters]

6Dusters- looking for any and all pictures, grays and mutes alike. How bad did that chin get knocked for her belly and did you discuss what to breed her to with anybody? I think I'd choose the same path (throw it in my ebony lines) but curious why others do what they do

Ange, I bought two BV's at the same time. My first BV buys. Ron brought them to me at the Nationals couple years ago. After I got them home, I thought this girl was off in the belly by looking at my standard line. She did show well for me, and her judges comments matched my gut feeling. Her belly color was indeed off. Jim judged her. This girl was not knocked any further. Jim made the comment she had size, with good fur volume and veiling.
I have a beautiful medium ebony male and decided to give him a try. This is my first time using him and breeding ebony. I'll be bringing a male BV eb with me to the Nationals. Time will tell.
Alex

 

[Vyxxin]

Dee- how old was the kit, as bellies I find tend to be one of the slower the pretty areas

Cheryl- will try to find the pics

Alex- you don't have any belly shots of her by chance do you?

 

[Kylelemler]

We get the muddy bellies every once in a while also. Sorry no pics currently if them. But I too also had a black that showed well but had a dirty belly. Sold him to a bigger breeder that was going to use him in their ebony line.

 

[chinsNdobermans]

She was 9 weeks old when I sold her - I contemplated keeping her for my wrap lines but decided against it. Her brother, who is a violet, has a sparkling belly. She was a big girl, but he's got everything going for him aside from size (which is just average, looked tiny beside her)!

 

[6Dusters]

Ange, Here is a belly shot I took yesterday while she was sleeping upside down. It's not the best. But you get the idea.

 

[Vyxxin]

See, that's about what I picture...NOT crisp white but DEFINITELY not ebony looking. I don't know why then, some would consider showing this type of muddy belly in the ebony section?

 

[chinsNdobermans]

I would not consider that to be a belly worth putting it into the ebony section. I have a TOV violet/ebc male whose belly is similar... A belly like that is easy enough to work with with correct pairing.

 

[Vyxxin]

Cheryl- FINALLY located Barley (folder is like, next to last out of a bagillion) and I SEE why that animal was put in the ebony class...that's a pretty awful belly!

 

[Spoof]

I think I'd choose the same path (throw it in my ebony lines) but curious why others do what they do

I find them pet homes and split the parents or get rid of the line that brought it in - especially the ones that wrap under the neck/chin only or have a faded belly line. I dislike the look.

I do this because what you put into a line = what you get out. I focus on mute x mute breeding and in order to show the standards, beiges, violets and sapphires that come out of ebony crosses I need a crisp white belly. What I have found is now they are either a wrap or a clear belly and easy to define.

As someone who is just starting with a new line or unknown animal it is always good to think, do I like this trait? Is this something I want to see/work with again? )

Remember anything you put into the line you are going to get times three in the first generation and it subsides or grows depending on your choices in each subsequent generation.

 

[Vyxxin]

That is DEFINITELY something to consider...and a different way to look at things. As I said, I've never gotten a belly bad enough for it to be a concern but I do want to have a good idea of what I should do...should one occur. Thanks for the input.

 

[threewingedfury]

I agree with Tara fully. I haven't had muddy belly issues here in quite some time as I got rid of all of the animals or split the pairings up that produced off colored bellies. I'd pet out what I got out of those pairings and hope to never deal with it again.

 

[Spoof]

Found an example for you, it is not a dirty belly but of a faded belly line. Most people don't notice this until someone points it out.

You can see the grey bleeds into the white on the bigger female along the entire belly and chest area. Due to having amazing traits everywhere else I did breed her into my eb line at one point, back in 2004 or so.