I need advice! Bonding the newbies

[hallcb22]

Hello all! This is my first post on this site...so be patient with me

I currently have my 9 month old male (not neutered) chinchilla. This Sunday, I plan on bringing home 2 new additions to add to the chin loving family . One is a 15 month old female, and the other is a 9-12 week old female kit (a curly mosaic...she's to die for). The owner/breeder is reputable and has been VERY helpful with all kinds of advice and information, but I want additional information from you guys, the loving fans / breeders/ pet owners of these little furry people.
I have the boy, Brody, in his own 3 level 4 ft cage. I just bought a brand new double unit Midwest Critter nation cage and 2 baby proof customize Chinchilla cages (1 mansion, 1 skyscraper) The breeder states that the 15 month old and the baby will almost definitely bond since the adults usually accept babies fairly easily. I am keeping the midwest cage (largest) , empty with NO scents or territory claims until they are all bonded. When I bring home the 2 new chinchillas, I plan on putting them in their own cages as well. 3 cages (in case anyone of them despise any of the other 2). 3 chinchillas. 2 females 1 male.
For this herd dynamic...what would you recommend as the best choice for bonding options? cage inside a cage? smooshing? ( i have a "2 story" medium size mouse/gerbil cage that I was planing on using for vet calls and the transport home for one of them that I could use). I planned on putting them all in the sitting room/library with Brody , where he lives now. Not side by side, but across from each other for a few weeks. When it comes to letting the girls out to play....is this room an okay place for exploration if I am prepared for urine spraying?The more dominant chinchilla should be placed in the cage within a cage, correct? My spare bedroom is completely neutral and I wanted to save that for once they move into the critter nation cage, and the all can explore in their and have that be their play room.
Also, I am aware that Brody will probably attempt to mate with the 15 year old. I am comfortable and prepped for this. However, Once the 10 week old kit hits 4 months I will neuter Brody since I don't want her having babies at the youngest possible age, and I would like them to live together peacefully by then .

Sorry for the jumbo intro. I just want all the advice as possible!!!! THANKS EVERYONE!!!

 

[tunes]

I would not put Brody in with the females. He can potentially breed both of them. Chins have been known to get pregnant at 2 to 3 months of age. By 4 months, she could be pregnant. If you plan to breed them, you would either need to put the 15 month old female and Brody together or you would need to leave the two females together until the little one is old enough to breed and then intro Brody.

When intros come around, I prefer the cage in a cage method. Some people also put all the chins in a carrier and take them for a drive. I've not used that simply because I don't have time to drive around with chins, but I have brought chins home from shows or from breeders and put them together immediately after a 8 or 10 hour drive.

 

[hallcb22]

Gotcha! Thanks

Thanks tunes. That is very insightful. I definitely would not want the baby to be pregnant that early. No way. Are you suggesting I attempt to bond the girl first after my return home? The car ride is 3.5 hours back and I have a for one and a cardboard pet transfer box for the other.
Do you think the older female will be protective of the younger female with Brody? Even if he was neutered? I may try to introduce Brody separately to the fifteen month old first in an attempt to breed. Keep slowly introducing them, guarantee a pregnancy and neuter him. I've heard female chinchilla s potentially would be really introduction after a male returns from the procedure due to the smell of the animal hospital.... Is this true?

 

[tunes]

Here's the thing. Once you introduce Brody to the older female, that may be it. You may never be able to introduce the other one into the mix. Bonded chins can be very territorial and I cannot even begin to tell you how horrific it is when one turns on another. Add to that if you try to introduce a third chin, all three may end up fighting and you may need separate cages.

It sounds more like you are okay if they breed but that it doesn't matter. I mean this in the kindest way, but that is not a good enough reason to breed. You risk your female dying, you risk your male getting killed if the female turns on him. You could end up needing to hand feed kits every two hours, around the clock, for weeks on end if mom does die or is simply unable to produce milk. Mom could need a C-section, which in your neck of the woods is going to run you upwards of $1000.00. Do you have homes for potential offspring? Are you prepared to keep all of them if you can't rehome them?

Also consider the risk to Brody surgically. Some chins do well with castration, others have life threatening complications. Do you want to put your boy through that? If you have a really good vet, it helps, but no one can predict how a chin will react to surgery. There have been people who have had absolutely no problem and others who have had to fight to save their boy. I never recommend surgery just because with a chin.

Again, I don't mean any of that to be confrontational. I just wanted you to be aware of what you could face. Also, you should look into getting an actual carrier for your chins. Now that you are going to have three, you need a three hole in case you need to evacuate your home because of fire, tornado, air conditioner breakdown, etc. I would get a 4 hole so you can put supplies in the empty spot. Ryerson Chinchillas sell metal containers that are approved for shipping and very safe for transporting chins.

 

[hallcb22]

Hey Tunes! Thanks for a speedy response. I googled the Ryerson advice and this is what i found... http://www.ryersonchinchilla.com/110702_037.jpg
^^ Is that what you're talking about for emergency transport? As far as a 3-4 hole carrier...are you talking about one for small animals or is the Ryerson used for both? I just want to confirm. I have looked into regular pet carriers before and declined the idea since they are all lined with fleece or have plastic SOMEWHERE on the container.

Also, I think I may have typed out that last response incorrectly. I will clarify and say that I am definitely prepared for Brody and the 15 month old to mate. When I said 'attempt', I meant I would never force them, but I will try to bond them and see if they like each other enough to mate. Otherwise I am prepared for them to be housed separately forever in case they hate each other. And as far as the neutering... I would love for Brody and the girls to get along splendidly, and I am willing to take the time to bond them all properly, but if the baby kit can live/thrive with the two older chins, then I would neuter Brody...for the ongoing safety and long term health of the baby female. I have definite homes for the babies if they are males. I will keep the daughter(s) separately in their own cage as a bonded pair or on her own, with the intention of finding her a cage mate in the future, rather then bonding them with the current 3 in the picture. 4-6 is too many for me in the same dynamic. Too dangerous. I am financially stable and I have a marvelous vet in Champaign IL who has worked with me and my departed first chin, Buddy, for 10-11 years.

Again...thanks for all the help!!!

ALSO! a question from a topic you posted earlier in the first response: When I bring the 2 girls home Sunday, in separate small cages....whats your recommendation for their arrival home? Cage within a cage right away? One in front of the other for a week? Let them play together sooner than later if they are bonding /responding well? I just want to do this right since I want Brody to also get some bonding experience with the girls too. At least the older girl.

Also, a question

 

[Dreamlite]

I would ask the breeder to bond the 2 females and save your self the trouble. Caging chins together has much more to do with personality than technique. You decide what works best for them and you. You seem set on breeding. Just to clarify, if you know they are male and female and cage them together you are trying to breed. Do both chins have pedigrees? Are they show quality chins? Do they have good traits to pass on to their off spring? There are many things that can go wrong like Tunes listed. Its not something to take lightly. Its great that you have a vet lined up. I have 3 vets personally. That one time you need them will be at 2 am on a holiday... keep doing your research. Knowledge is very important.

 

[tunes]

There is no point in trying to put the two girls together if you are going to throw Brody into the mix. You can't expose him to the older girl and then expect to keep the two girls together later. You need to choose. Either put the older girl and Brody together or don't. It can't be six of one, half a dozen of another.

Also, it isn't a matter of like. These are animals. He is a male. He IS going to breed her whether she wants it or not. What might happen is she may really, really not want it, and she may try to kill him. When a breeder puts six females into runs with collars and opens the jump for the male to get in, like has absolutely nothing to do with it. He jumps in, he breeds, he leaves. I'm not saying that chins can't like each other, obviously they can, but liking has very little to do with breeding. I have chins who like each other just fine - they have never produced a kit. I have a male who was very happy to breed his female, just before she beat the living snot out of him. They are animals, regardless of whether they are pets or not.

Does that make sense?

The picture you are showing is a three hole breeding run like I talked about above. It's used with collars and multiple females. What you want is this: http://ryersonchinchilla.com/arc_010.htm

 

[hallcb22]

Thanks folks!

Such good advice. I have officially brought home the girls. (names coming soon). They are eating, drinking, and the babe is dust bathing. I have them in the same room as Brody. I have given him the option to exit his cage to play as usual and he is not wanting to come out. Do you think he feels dominated? Is he protecting his cage?
Anywho. I will postpone my attempts to bond Brody and the two girls for now since a) the girls seem happy just by themselves b) i want to do more research on bonding older females/bonded females... And I think I would not not introduce Brody to the younger girl until she is at least 8 or 9 months old. To avoid unhealthy babe's.

Tunes. I ordered the four hole one as you suggested. Thanks!

As for the vet.. I used to work for the three doctors that animal clinic so I am hooked to their personal phone and home addresses if need be. It's a relief.

I do not want the girls to be harmed. I don't want to neuter Brody. I would like them to eventually all live together and breed. Those are my hopes and intentions. But if I can't do any of them properly or safely I won't do it. All of your advice is extremely helpful. Keep it coming.

 

[Dreamlite]

Do all your chins have pedigrees? You want to breed so be sure to do it right. Genetic health is extremely important. Is your male and old female breeding quality? What traits do they have to compliment each other.

 

[hallcb22]

The female has a pedigree as does the male
. As far as their personalities... This is still hard to say. Brody is normally hyper as ****. Last night he was scared to come out of his cage. Now he is back to his usual self before during and after playtime.
I've only had the girls.. Who I have thusly named Fiona and Cake... Are still a mystery to me. They were hyper and playful at the breeders, now they prefer to hide in their tunnel. I imagine they are stressed so I'm not forcing them out. They both came out today on their own with some coercing. The babe, Fiona wanted to hide everywhere and went to her cage on her own. She's good with handled. The older girl, cake , was timid most of the time., didn't want to be held, but after I placed Fiona in front of her she began to wall surf a bit and ran around me in circles a few times. Hopefully after the first few days to weeks of scent swapping with toys and playing on front of each other will bring out the girls' playful nature. If not... They can have the big cage and I'll keep Brody separated for a while until I figure out what the next steps could be
Used .

 

[Shenanigans]

Another thing to think about if you choose to breed is making sure you don''t back-breed, or let the mom and dad breed right after kits are born (i believe it can be the same day as the birth but i may be wrong on that) it's very hard on mom to constantly be pregnant, so you'd need to separate dad for a while.

 

[hallcb22]

Thanks shenanigans for the concern. I am aware of the breed back potential and I would keep Cake separated from Brody for at least 2 to 3 months after the birthing so the kits get the cage they need, while still being able to play with dad if he's a good father, but giving mom's body a healthy break.

Update on behavior!

Brody and Fiona the baby seem sooo interested each other. They approach each others cages and kiss and lick faces. If Brody is out and approaches cake in her cage. They'll sniff and it looks like they nip. The same will happen if cake approaches Brody in his cage (always with entrance doors shut of course). It seems the more irritated chin is whoever is in the cage. I switch their toys for scent exchange twice daily. I even placed the carrier that I brought the girls home in into brodys cage for him to be a accustomed to smell. I put cake in the carrier and and placed her in brodys cage with him while observed for twenty minutes. No problems. I plan on doing the same for brody in her cage tomorrow. Any advice on when it would would be wise to intro them if ever (signs?) outside of the cage.? Neutral space right?