"Clicking" sound with newborn kit?

[EMSChins]

Would like some input from those of you with experience breeding.

I had 2 kits born this morning to a first time mom. Both kits are active and appear healthy upon visual inspection and they both weigh 58 gms after drying off. I had the mom marked as due between 5/22 and 5/30 based upon when I opened her up to the male, evidence of mating and physical s/s of advanced pregnancy. I think I called that one pretty well.

Of concern to me if that the female kit is making a clicking noise that is coming from her mouth/nose area. I am extremely hard of hearing and wear bilateral hearing aides so for me to hear this, it must be quite pronounced. To me the "clicking" sounds like what I remember a second hand tick sounding like (I can no longer hear that so not sure) and it is clicking about that fast or faster (think tick, tick, tick......).

Within hours of birth, the siblings started mildly fighting and the mom is getting aggravated with both of them as the male especially keeps jumping at her face. I pulled them out to supplement them, help satisfy them for a while and give mom a break. This is when I noticed the clicking noise from the female. When I went to supplement her, I noticed that as soon as I put a drop of goats milk on her lip and she went to lick it off, the milk seem to bubble and spit from the opening of her mouth (as if there is some type of an air leak coming from withing her mouth, throat, lung area). She DID NOT aspirate - just want to make that clear. It is just that everytime she opens her mouth there seems to be something that causes the milk to bubble and fly off her lips. She doesn't seem too interested in the goats milk but they generally aren't the first couple of times it is offered. It is strange. Her color and activity level seem good and equal to her brothers, there is no evidence of blue mucosa. She is attempting to nurse when there is no fighting going on.

At first I thought atelectasis or immature lungs but she appears to be completely full term and a good size. Possibly she aspirated fluid during littering - but no blueing of her lips or mucoas at this point. She does not appear to be struggling to breathe. I am unable to get a good clear view inside her mouth due to her size but I am wondering if it is possible that she may have a cleft palate or something else???

Anyway - sorry for the book but I have tried to be as descriptive as possible for anyone who might have experienced something similar and might have an idea what this could be? For now, I am rotating the male out and leaving the female with mom hoping to decrease any further stress in case it is something medical and hopefully transient (although I suspect probably not).

Thanks for any input/suggested course of action.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Certainly a cleft palate is possible. When I hear the clicking I think of fluid in the lungs, and they can put up with a certain level of it before turning cyanotic.

I would swab the nostrils with a q-tip every time you see the bubbles and try to see if it is formula. I'd even be tempted to put a drop of food dye in a bit of formula and look that way if I was leaning more towards a cleft palate.

ETA: if it's aspiration from birth, and I hear the clicking, I usually do the flinging method or get a bulb and suction the mouth and as much of the nostrils as I can get to. The few times I've heard it, it was minimal and went away.

 

[EMSChins]

Thanks for your input Alicyn.

The bubbles though are not coming from her nares, the milk drop that sits on her lips bubbles and spits when she opens her mouth to take it in. When I say spit, imagine how tiny that drop of milk is and then when she opens her mouth to take it in, it is as though there is a strong "breeze" or draft from her mouth when it opens that causes a small portion of it to fly through the air (this is a very miniscule amount as it is only a very small portion of the tiny drop). Then as she breathes in and out while the remainder of that drop sits there, it bubbles around her mouth and she does not take it in despite making sucking motions with her mouth.

I have hand fed at least 20-30 kits by now and feel that I have the technique down and am fairly certain there is something wrong with her.

I did suspect aspiration of birth fluids at first and did try the "fling". No immediate noticeable improvement or change. She doesn't appear to be in distress so I am hoping that whatever it is will clear itself and no infection will set in.

I can't judge how loud it is but it is very noticeable, if you held a watch with a second hand up to your ear I am fairly certain that is exactly what it sounds like. It may just be that she is making this noise in a pitch that I can still hear. My husband can hear it and says it is noticeable but he can't give me a good descriptive of how loud it is. There are just so few things like that that I can hear I may be making a mountain out of a molehill. For example, I can hear the chins if they bark but I cannot localize the sound to tell you what part of the room it is coming from (and my room is not that big). I could be standing right in front of the chin barking and unless I see it's chest heaving, I would not be able to tell you that it was the one making the ruckus. I cannot hear the chins call to each other and everyone else in my family can - even if I hold a baby up to me ear - I cannot hear it. This clicking I can hear without holding her up to my ear.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Oh weird, with a cleft palate I'd expect to see fluid coming out of the nose.

I think she may just be a weird suckler - I agree with waiting it out and seeing if it resolves, see if she grows out of it as she gets used to nursing.

 

[EMSChins]

Unless she is getting something from mom, she isn't suckling at all. She just lets that drop sit there and won't take it in. She just seems to be breathing around it. I just tried again for the third time today with the same result.

I don't think I have a choice but to wait it out since at this age, there is not much that can be done vet wise.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Cuddlebug]

I would keep a very close eye on this little one. Whether or not there is clefting of the pallet, there could be issues with sucking and therefore, nursing.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

By "weird suckler" I meant maybe she doesn't know what she's doing, even less so than the average kit.

Is she breathing through her nose at all? If she doesn't have patent nares, then that would definitely explain the bubbles from the mouth.

If she isn't eating at all, the next thing that comes to my mind would be something with the digestive tract. Perhaps atresia ani or coli - have you noticed her pooping?

 

[EMSChins]

Her nares are patent, they are flaring in and out with every breath that she takes. She has not pooped while I have had her out (despite stimulation) but does appear to have minor staining as if she has pooped sometime today. She is not taking anything in. She seems to be unable to suckle/swallow and breathe at the same time.

That being said, she seems to have given up, she will not swallow anything I try to give by syringe and she no longer appears to be attempting to nurse. She seeks mom out and nuzzles up against her with her face up in the air as if she is air hungry. Earlier today she was under mom attempting to nurse - that is no longer happening. Brother is no longer picking fights with her and mom has calmed down. I think they sense the inevitable.

She doesn't seem to be struggling and mom has not completely rejected her so I will just continue to watch and monitor but I don't think that she will make it through the night. Sad because she looks so perfect - unfortunately there does seem to be some internal defect that I cannot see or identify. I am still thinking that it is a respiratory issue but some kind of defect.

 

[Pookinaround]

I am so sorry to hear this Juanita. I am really hoping that things turn around for you and your little girl. What is meant to be will be... don't know what else to say. Again sorry.

 

[EMSChins]

Chapter two - Lesson in never giving up!

When I went down to supplement B44 last night around 9 pm she had deteriorated severely. She was laying flattened in the cage next to mom and going through the last stages of dying (agonal breathing), her body was completely limp and cold. She had completely given up.

Mom seemed a little distraught so I decided the humane thing to do was to remove her from the cage and just hold her until she died rather than placing that burden on a new mother. I sat with her for several hours and everytime I thought that she was gone, she would take another small gasp. She lay in the palm of my hand without moving and only taking a gasp or two about every 30 to 45 seconds for a good long while. I would stroke her and she would shudder once in a while. Her breathing was very wheezy and the clicking while still there was not as fast or frequent as earlier in the day so I am convinced it was timed with her breathing. Around 11 pm she peacefully died in my hands.

Her body appeared to be inflated with air (bloated)so I poked around on her for a bit to see if I could hear any air escaping or any crepitus (thinking that her problem may have been an open pneumo with air escaping into her surrounding tissues). A full 2 minutes after she passed (no breathing, eyes glazed over, body cold and very limp despite stimulation), she gasped another breath. She died and came back with just very gentle nudging on my part for the better part of an hour. I just couldn't bring myself to put her out of her misery since she seemed to be fighting so hard without really seeming to struggle. It was as if she would peacefully give up and then a minute or two decide, maybe I have one more breath in me.

Around 12:30 am I gave up and placed her back with mom to die and I had a fitful 4 hours of sleep. I fully expected to find a dead kit this morning.

When I went down at 5 am with tissues in hand to wrap her body, I find her on wobbly legs hopping around the cage with her brother and her mom looking at me like - What??? I weighed her and after not eating at all yesterday she lost a mere 3 gms and the clicking sound is gone. I placed her back with mom and she promptly burrowed underneath her and started nursing. I have checked on her several more times and each time she has been nursing. I am cautiously optimistic knowing that she went for long stretches last night without oxygen and knowing what that can do to a human, I can only imagine what it does to such a small chin.

The defect that caused the clicking still has me puzzled but the dying and coming back so strong has me in awe. Before I went to sleep I just placed her life in God's hands and asked him for this one small thing, I do not ask for much but I did ask him to take care of her and to choose the best path for her. I have gotten so used to losing kits but I just didn't want to find her dead this morning after she seemed to fight to come back so hard. I think I owe God on this one for sure!

 

[Danderson]

Wow! This is so awe inspiring! I wonder what it was???
The good lord definetely had a hand in this...
This is just the best news to read first thing in the morning...
She is a true fighter!

 

[starleomach]

I am so glad to hear she is improving! Usually when I hear clicking I assume it is fluid in the lungs

 

[Pookinaround]

Don't keep us in suspense...Update please tell us she is still doing better...Little Miracle (hint for a name) LOL

 

[EMSChins]

Just a quick update with a couple of photos.

The little girl continues to do well. Has lost another gram but active and as alert as her brother who is gaining well. I think maybe too active after her first medically fragile 18 hours. She continues to nurse, play and explore the cage as if nothing happened and I continue to monitor her.

Her brother is the lighter mosaic with the broad white strip across his bum and she is the darker of the two with only a half strip going across her bum.

No name picked out yet - bouncing a few ideas around in my head.

 

[Pookinaround]

Oooooooh too adorable! To just look at the pics you'd never would have guessed anything would have been wrong... So glad for you both!

 

[EMSChins]

I wish I had taken a pic of her while she was dying/dead in my hands. I don't know why but I actually tought about doing that for some reason, probably because she made me so sad as it's not like I have a morbid streak or anything. Now I wish I had because she looked so normal and healthy the next morning and continues to act like there was nothing wrong with her.

If my husband hadn't seen her like that and been with me when she died and then came back - I would have thought I was imagining things but he saw it and confirmed it with his own eyes. I have to admit that I am a little freaked out by the whole thing!

I have decided to name her Talitha or "Tali" for short. Talitha means "little girl" in Aramaic, given in reference to the Biblical story in the Gospel of Mark in which Jesus Christ was said to have resurrected a dead child with the words "Talitha cumi" or "Talitha kum" or "Talitha koum," meaning "Little girl, I say to you, arise."

I think it is fitting.

 

[Pookinaround]

BEAUTIFUL NAME!!!!! Love the story behind it too!

 

[Cuddlebug]

The name really fits! I hope she continues to improve.

 

[feistychins]

I can't believe what I just read, a true miracle. I am so happy she is doing so well and I hope she continues to do so. Their markings are adorable.

 

[6Dusters]

Aww. She is really blessed.
Wish I could say the same about my Sunni. She has heart failure and in her last days. I prayed last night that God would take her and not let her suffer.

Juanita the same thing happened to me. Laid down with her in bed last night listening to her labored breathing. She laid on her side upon my chest and I told her it was okay to go. I finally laid her down in a box beside the bed thinking she would be gone this morning and she is still alive. However she wants no food or water. Its tough.
Oh the things we do for our animals. :cry3: Our gerbil passed from old age last week. One of our cats had to be put down Monday. I'm tired........and sad too.

Best wishes on this little girl. They are beautiful babies.