Buying my first chins

[Stormcrow]

Hi everybody!

I'm pretty new around here, and I am also pretty new to the wonderfull word of chinchilla's.

Me and my GF live at an appartment in the city, and since she has an allergy to cats and obviously a dog couldn't live here without a garden, we went looking for another pet.
Now, I understand this makes me sound a bit stupid like "omg I ned to haz a pet! lol! gonna get a furry funny critter!" but I assure you that I do not make hastily decisions.

Ofcourse I had allready seen them on animal shows/expo's around the country, and although I always liked their appearance and behaviour, i had never questioned if I could keep them (seeing them still being an "exotic" pet).
Now, we do allready have guinea pigs, we both had hamsters and bunny's as kids and allthough i know they can't be looked upon in the same way, I can tell you that we simply love rodents alltogether and we allready understand basic needs, hygiene, basic communication...
Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but popcorning, nagging (small squeeks), cry for attention, clicking noise when in pain are all "features" both chins and guinea pigs have...
Again, not trying to make too much of a comparison, I know they differ a lot, just saying we love them, learn how to handle them and try to give them a happy live in our home.

The point has come now that we feel we are ready (and have the time and room) for another pet, and the allergy of my gf in mind we thought that a chinchilla wpuld be a brilliant idea.
i started off by reading on the internet. it is not all the truth out there but still a massive chunk of info that I slowly digested and I dare to say that I allready picked up a lot about chins.
i know, practical experience can't be compared to reading, but you need to start somewhere right?

Next step was finding a forum where I could learn by reading about probs people encountered before, and I found this forum to be a great place for new people like me to come and learn.

Tomorrow we will go for step 3: through an ebay-ish kind of website i posted that I was looking for a chinchillabreeder that would make some time for me to explain some more about these animals, and show me some stuff in real life. i think it is important to learn how to handle your animal correctly before buying instead of just buying and seeing where it takes you from there. A really cool dude reacted that he had nothing to hide and he would happily have me in his house showing me around.

In the meanwhile, I got a cage! I went to look for a selmade at first, but since I lack the knowledge and skills to make one, I decided to buy a cage. I wanted a sturdy one that wouldn't rattle all night (or would counter it as much as possible anyway ) and I wanted it to be big enough. I stumbled upon a ferret nation cage with the 2 cages on top of eachother and shelf underneath (model 142?). I will start to make it chinready next week, thinking about getting tiles at the bottom and make some wooden platforms.

I also drove around stores to look at chinchillas (although I would never buy in a regular pet store, at least not in the ones I know), the cages and accesories they had for sale. I learned wich food and stuff is better, learned to see the difference in colors on chins and learned a bit about their housing, behaviour and sadly enough diseases :s

Sorry for the wall of text up until now, I just wanted to show you to wich degree that I am really serious about getting these, and that I really intend to prepare as good as possible. I have a few more questions unanswered that I would like to ask to more experienced owners, since the subject varies I placed this in general, hope its ok!

- I want to buy 2 chins; I don't want a couple cause I don't have the knowledge to handle nests and shizzle and besides, there are too many backyard breeders allready. I would like to go for a m-m or a f-f combo.
I know males have fur rings sometimes, and girls tend to spray, but besides that is there any other difference? Are girls easier to handle or less hyper for example? I guess not, just asking

- Since the cage I have can hold that number, I wonder if it would be best to buy 2 or 3. I would hate to buy 2 and see that 1 more would be fine, so i need to introduce... I rather look around and buy 3 same sex chins from the same nest.
I would also hate to see 2 chins getting along and the nr 3 being pushed away, wich I read about aswell. What do you think; is 2 better then 3? We have the room, time and can handle costs. If 3 is a better option, would m-m-m or f-f-f be best?

- I wouldn't mind paying up to €150/200 for a chin, and I know they can come this pricey since they can have nice offspring. I don't intend to breed however, so I just need to know what a chin needs to be to be worth this amount. i know this is maybe a touchy or hard subject, but let me give you an example...
Most breeders in Belgium are small breeders; they do shows and just like to breed their own price winning animals. They don't mass breed however. i just read that curly hairs aren't good for shows (or that they are frowned upon for the fur texture). I have found a breeder now that is willing to sell me a couple of chins (was windowshopping a bit on the internet and asking questions).
For an ebony hetero curly he charges €150, since he says that it is a pretty animal. ive seen a picture and it has a nice build, but why does he charge €150 for a chin that can't do shows?
Not debating prices here, just trying to understand them and learning to know if people try to rip me off price aint the most important, but i shouldn't trow away money neither right?

- What glue is "safe" to glue houses together with for chins? They aren't hard to make, just need to know what's safe... Is it the same little kids in kindergarden use (white, liquid)?

Those are the most important things i need to know right now, thanks for reading through (you better not skipped the wall of text to the last line! ) and thanks in advance for taking your time to answer

 

[Lillybabe]

A couple of things... Have you checked out this breeder you are going to visit? I would see if you could get reviews on them before considering any of their chins. Word of mouth is a great way to find out if someone is truly reputable or if they are a backyard breeder. When visiting their chins I would look to see if their chins are happy and healthy. Do they seem friendly? Will they let the breeder hold them? Do they all have food, water and hay? If not why are they missing one of them? Are the kits all in with the male and female that were bred or are the kits alone with mom? Are the breeding animals in runs or just thrown together willynilly? Do things seem organized and clean? Does the place stink? What is the temperature like? Hot, cold, drafty, stuffy? These are all important to think about. If the breeder is not taking good care of the animals when they know someone is coming to visit I would question how well they take care of them when no one is looking. If the chinchillas are housed outside I would immediately thank them for their time, discharge any advice they gave, and leave. Chinchillas shouldn't be in pens outside, they need temperature controlled environments. If the breeder doesn't know that much or doesn't care, you don't want their animals.

Also, why are you looking into breeders? Have you considered a rescue? There are tons of chinchillas in recues looking for good homes. Often they are less pricey than animals at a breeders but of course come with some risks as well. However, you could give an animal that has potentially had a bad life a good home. I wouldn't get one from a petstore as they typically are supplied by backyard breeders and take poor care of their animals.

I am glad to see you have done so much research. How does your apartment management feel about you getting a chinchilla? I would make sure additional pets are allowed before getting one. Do you have access to a chinchilla savvy vet for day time, night time and weekend vet care? Often chinchillas need a vet in the middle of the night or over a weekend.

The Ferret Nation cage is a wonderful cage. It should last you a long time. You will definitely need lots of wooden ledges. You will also need to either replace or completely cover all of the plastic as well as remove the ramps. If you get chins under about 3-4 months old you may need to reinforce the cage bars so your chin(s) can not escape. I would recommend stopping at two chins. Even with two chins that are from the same litter there is no guarantee they will get along long term. If you have to separate them the two levels of the Ferret Nation will work nicely. Pairs tend to get along better than sets of three. It is also going to be far more difficult to find three chinchillas from the same litter of the same sex. You would have to slowly bond them all together which isn't as easily done in the Ferret Nation as they would not be next to each other for the bonding process.

As far as glue goes Elmers Wood Glue is perfectly safe for chinchillas and is nontoxic. I believe regular Elmers glue (like Kindergarteners use) is also safe but it isn't going to hold wood together as well. Making your own items is definitely a great way to save some money.

 

[dragsil]

Also, why are you looking into breeders? Have you considered a rescue? There are tons of chinchillas in recues looking for good homes. Often they are less pricey than animals at a breeders but of course come with some risks as well. However, you could give an animal that has potentially had a bad life a good home. I wouldn't get one from a petstore as they typically are supplied by backyard breeders and take poor care of their animals.

I can vouch for that, adopting an older chin was the best thing we ever did, his personality was obvious from the start and we've bonded much closer with him than the baby we adopted at the same time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've also read that malo generally tends to show up by the age of five? Our Silver Chin was six when we got him and he has bucketloads of life in him I'm not sure how it is in Belgium but there are quite a few pedigreed and well bred chins (both pets and ex breeding stock) needing to be rehomed here in Sweden around the five-nine year old mark, so would be well worth looking into if the situation is similar

It sounds like you and your girlfriend are going to be a fantastic chin owners, I hope you guys find the perfect chins!

 

[ticklechin]

Just a FYI, Environmental malocclusion can show up at any age to any chin, genetic malo shows up usually by age 1.5-2 years old or even younger.

 

[Stormcrow]

First of all guys, a big thanks for all the fast replies. It is nice to see that finally i have found a forum that is still active and newbie-friendly!
Big kudos to all of you for that!

So, about the adoption...
First of all I would like to say that I think it's wonderfull people really sacrifice a part of their free time and money to rescue mistreated animals.
The reason why i didn't consider getting one from there is the following; although I know you can't even possibly compare these animals, just trying to get my point across...
A friend of mine bought a beautifull sheperd dog from the shelter. he did a few walks with her up front (he used to be a volunteer doggy walker), and got to know her pretty well, he thought. For some reason he is in totall controll of the animal, she listens to hom and won't disobey when he is around. He can't be left alone with animals or kids though, as he would shred them apart :s

The dog just has a character issue that can't be corrected anymore. My friend however is an experienced dog owner and hloves her so much that he allows his passion for the dog to nibble at his social life for example. The reason why nothing too bad has ever happened is because he knows how to handle dogs, he had a few over the years, and he is better at "reading" her behaviour and act accordingly.

Ofcourse, a chin wouldn't be able to do the same damage, but i think to be able to give a chin that has gone through a lot a decent and stable home, you need to get that experience first. Ofcourse some of you will tell me that this statement is bull cause they have had a good experience and that it was their first pet; but I just feel insecure that I wouldn't succeed and get stuck with a frightenend and uncontrollable critter. I guess if you are a breeder and have the spare room you can keep it anyway, and it would make you look as a better human to me imo, but i just don't have the extra room.

I just feel more safe discovering the whole chinchilla world with a little one that is discovering everything himself Think it would make a great bond aswell.
It is just how I feel about it, if you think it's an easy excuse, I can't debate that.

I went to see the breeder today, he has won a few prices in BE and NL shows, and he is an amazingly nice guy. Today me and my GF spended 2 hours in his chinchilla-shed as i like to call it (it was impressive, nice looking and behaving animals, decently housed and accomodated) while he explained a lot of things to me, answered my questions from A to Z and gave me lots of tips and practical information.

He opened up all of his cages, almost got out all of his chins one by one to show them (i can assure you, we were in there 2 hours, we have seen quite some pretty chinchillas).
I can assure you they were all well used to being held and handled, their furs looked amazing, no runny noses/wet chins/nibblet at ears...
In the end me and my GF fell in love with 2 male chins that had been very curious about our arrival and kept coming to the border of the cage to inspect us. One of them was sitting with his brothers (almost 4 months old), the other one was just going to be separated from the mom (8 weeks).

The guy took a 50% payment up front and will introduce them to eachother starting from tomorrow. In the meantime I will prep my cage (wooden platforms, cage bars reinforcement for the little one and decoration alltogether). Thanks in advance, and I will keep you updated!

 

[melbur10]

I would also go for a pair rather than a trio, many people have had trios fail down the line... Seperating a pair with the FN 142 is simple in the event that they 'break up' with one another, with a trio I would defin reconmend having a third cage on hand.

Also any vet bills with ONE can be quite extreme, having 3 can be hard to deal with financially in the even they all need vet care.

Pluss if you have two just use the extra $ you would have spent on the third to spoil the heck out of the two with toys and lots of different wood varietys!

The glue you want to use needs to be non-toxic, the brand mentioned above(Elmer's) is what we use here but I'm not sure what you have where you are.

Every breeder is realistically entitled to charge what ever they feel, breeders put all their time & effort into breeding and invest a lot of money feeding, supplementing, vet-ing and not to mention the $ for shavings, dust & wood.

Now that being said it would be wise to consider carefully who you buy from, in several cases the 'breeder' charges a high price, and does not take care of the animals properly in an effort to make 'lots' of $$. Ie your back yard breeders.
The advice given above is great for what you want to look into before buying an animal from some one.

 

[Lillybabe]

I hope the breeders will take a nice long time introducing the two boys. I would sex check them yourself, even if you are certain the breeder knows what they are doing. So many people have ended up with a male/female pair instead of a female/female or male/male pair. It can takes months to properly bond two chins so I hope all goes well. I would continue to watch them closely even once you get them home. There is no guarantee they will continue to get along in a new environment.

 

[Stormcrow]

thanks again for the tips.
yes, you guys are right about the trio's. We also thought that, since we arent experienced with them, it would be better to divide attention over 2 instead of 3

About the sex check, if the police would come and check my interwebzfiles they would probably think weird things of me Just to give you an idea of the amount of different sex photos of chins i have seen. Today the sex was indicated on every cage, and before looking at it I checked a few chins myself when I had the opportunity and verified afterwards -> 100% succes (I was actually proud of myself) The two boys are really two boys, and I think they look adorable

got 2 blurry shots before putting them back in, just to give you a first impression

http://i44.tinypic.com/smpmv5.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/oscrux.jpg

 

[VolunteerChin22]

When you are dealing with weaning into groups and very young kits they often go together with no problems. Especially if you put them in a different cage than either has been in before.

With that said, I would keep an eye on the older one because if he's been weaned in another group with a set dominance heirarchy, and then placed with the new chin he may be aggressive. A good breeder would call you and give you a heads up that there are intro issues and give you the option of selecting a more compatible pair.