Another Winston Update

[gingerred]

Hi again all. So Winston has been happily chowing down all week on his soft kibble, but I noticed a bump on his mouth yesterday and was able to get him in today to a new vet, since mine is on holidays. He's got a big red bump on his lower gum line. The vet said he'll test it, but he's thinking it's cancer. He also said (if results come back that it is) that he could operate, but it would involve removing most of his lower jaw, which leads him to question quality of life after that. He's given me 2 weeks of oral pain killer, and I've got some Hills AD wet food that Winston will get for the next little while, to make it even easier for him to eat.

Anyway, I'll keep giving him wet kibble, but I think this hog is also getting wet food from now on to keep it easier to eat. One question I have though, is when do you decide to put him down or not?? Obviously, surgery doesn't seem like a viable option at this point, though I will consider it, but at the moment I can't tell if he's in pain or not, other than having trouble eating hard kibble. He let me touch the area last night and didn't seem to mind. I don't want to put him down if he's still happy, but don't want to leave it too long if it's better for him overall/if he's starting to suffer. Any advice?? He'll be 5 this Sept, and the vet said everything else looked/sounded good.

 

[Raindog]

I just went through this and it is a very hard choice. I got a lot of great advice and support through this forum. The best advice I got is to make a list of his three favorite things to do and when he can't do them anymore you know it is time. For Quinn it was running, eating and cuddling. I knew it was time when he stopped running and when it was obvious eating was causing him pain even with the pain medicine. He was on wet food and I could tell because when he chewed he ducked his head and was trying to eat on the other side of his mouth. I probably could have let it go longer because he was still curious and cuddly but I didn't want him to be in pain any longer than he had to be.

Everyone told me that I will know when the time is right and it's true. I questioned myself everyday and I had no idea what to do for so long but one day I just knew it was time. You know your baby and he will let you know when he is ready. It could be a long time from now.

There are some medicines you can get that could slow the growth. Quinn was on Maitake an herbal supplement to slow cancer growth. I know SMHufflepuff's Satin was on a special medicine too.

My thoughts are with you and Winston.

 

[smhufflepuff]

I think you're right to give him wet food. You can always leave a bit of moistened kibble in a dish for him in the same way that you'd leave a wheel in even if hedgie is no longer a runner. It feels familiar to them for it to be there. And, in the off chance, he wants to or is able to do it, it's there for him. Miss Satin, for example, insisted on crunching on her kibble (we changed over to RCBC for her - tiny pieces; high in fat/calories) and she was happy that way. We did, of course, offer alternatives. But, in the end, it's her happiness and if she wanted to crunch on kibbs, then more power to her. She was on Piroxicam that showed promise in other species (there weren't published hedgie studies with the drug) in slowing and/or reversing SCC. It also acted as a pain reducer. A couple times, she rested her jaw where the tumor was on my finger when I held her. I think it felt better to her that way. Perhaps Winston has a similar experience - that it doesn't hurt, but actually feels a bit better when he can put a little pressure on it. He'll let you know.

I'd recommend against surgery to remove a large part of his lower jaw. It's going to hurt like heck. Then there will be a recovery time involved. And then... how's he going to eat? You're right to question what his quality of life will be.

Raindog's advice is spot on about "when it is time." You'll know.

Sending lots of hedgie hugs to you and Winston. Make sure to spoil that boy! Lots of snuggles

 

[gingerred]

Thanks guys. He seems to still be eating lots of soft foods and he's still making an absolute mess of his wheel, so he's using it. The vet hasn't offered any possible drugs, though he is looking into the possibility of radiation treatments in another city over. He doesn't know a lot about it though, cos there is no one here who does it. I'll ask him about the Piroxicam next time we talk. He did confirm that it's a SCC. As for food, if that hog wants the hedgie equivalent of fatty steak, pizza and beer every night, he's going to get it.

His poops are super runny yesterday and today, and there seems to be some green pus in his urine, possibly. Not sure if it's from the new Hills AD (though he's had it before, years ago with no problems) or from the current problems. I'll wait and see another couple of days to see if it's a food reaction

 

[Raindog]

As long as he eats he might as well enjoy it! That's what I did for Quinn. I got some wet cat food just to try at Target and he loved it so that is what he got.

I would guess that the poops are from the food, there is more moisture in the wet so that would explain the runny poops. You can get some acidophilus capsules from the drug store and sprinkle a bit on his food to help him tummy. Not sure about the green in his urine, it might have been from some of the poop, green poop is common for a hedgie but never heard of in in the urine.

 

[smhufflepuff]

Agreed regarding the wet food and messy poop issues. And, yep, I second the acidophilus recommendation.

The green pus in the urine is of concern... not really sure what the best course of action is there other than to check in with your vet.

The Piroxicam worked pretty well for Satin. Of course, since there wasn't a "real" Satin and a "test subject" Satin where we could compare the SCC's rate of growth both on and off the meds, we'll never really know for sure if it slowed things down. But I do know it helped with any pain/discomfort she had based on the pattern of when she received the meds and when she wanted to start eating. She also didn't have any appreciable swelling in the area... just the tumor growth itself. So I'm thinking the overall anti-inflamatory piece was working well too. Check out this post: http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37722 if you haven't yet.