Ad of someone breeding two whites arrrghhh

[kathiva]

A while ago, I had seen this ad about this person selling two white chinchillas, a male and a female, and she says it is a breeding pair, and that they have already had a baby, I replied to the ad, and I said that she should not breed them together because of the lethal factor, anyways, never got a reply, but not so long ago, I saw that the ad was reposted in October, and I told the person that he should not encourage breeding on these babies and this is the ad, and this is what he replied

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-oth...osaic-Chinchillas-For-Sale-W0QQAdIdZ323786705

You should really do some research yourself. With this breeding pair, you'll have a 50% chance of White (Mosaic or Silver), 25% Standard Gray and 25% Lethal Homo White (Still Born) in regards to future kit genetics (color). A 25% lethal rate, while a risk, isint high enough for most breeders to need to worry about. If they were velvet mosaics or TOVs the lethal rate jumps much higher, making it not worth the risk to breed.


I am just very upset to see that some people sort of know what they are doing, and know that they should be doing certain things, and don't care about their chins, and continue to do so,

I haven't replied yet, but I would like to send him links about the lethal factor so he sees it should not be done

 

[ticklechin]

Should this not be in the CL debate section. As for the rest, whatever.

 

[EMSChins]

While this is questionable breeding I am also concerned that the poster stated

"Both are under a year old, and are mosaics.

The pair has been separated since the female last gave birth."

They are under a year and have given birth???? Makes me wonder how old they were when the female got pregnant.

 

[Ash]

Obviously, they need some more information on genetics. The lethal factor does not mean 25% will be still born, it's means you will receive 25% less kits because they do not fertilize and/or develop.

 

[chinchillasrox]

That is just sad.

 

[dcfluegel]

on top of which can't the lethal factor issues impact/ traumatize the mama chin also? Its a living critter, not a kit-dispenser...

ugh - Ron White (of Blue Collar Comedy Tour fame) said it best... "you can't fix stupid..."

 

[mishalaa]

I'm with Dawn, this is whatever.

No, lethal factor has no affect on the parents... that we know of. Breeding white to a white doesn't mean the breeder does not care about the chins they have (well they probably don't, but not because they're breeding them together), it means they do not care about the quality and/or number of kits they produce. Which is obvious.

However, the breeder needs to do research as well. 25% lethal factor does not mean stillborn, it means no kit to birth. Also, the percentage for TOV to TOV is the same for white to white, the percentage is not higher and it is not really a risk at all (to the parents). And, in general, the quality of kits from a TOV to TOV pairing would most likely be better than a white to white pairing.

 

[jcrdust]

It's not uncommon for breeders to breed bv to bv. I have a somavia black that has almost complete velvet to velvet pairings on both sides of the pedigree all the way back three generations.

With the whites tending to have lazy fur, breeding white to white would produce even worse fur and is why you don't see white to white pairings from top breeders. It has little to do with the lethal factor and more to do with quality of the animal.

 

[AZChins]

I don't like it when people breed white to white mostly because it means that the kits are weaker and aren't given the best chance at life from the beginning. That can be true of most mutation to mutation breeding though...it just seems to be a little worse with the white to white pairings.

ehhh...people do dumb things with breeding chins, nothing new.

 

[Twilight Chinchillas]

Sometimes you just can't fix stupid! The things people do amazes me, while other times I just shake my head and say whatever!!!!

I have told people about the risks of breeding, why they should breed for quality if they do care at all, and about the lethal factor. I don't tell them that this means a certain percentage won't be born, maybe as a discouragement, if they really want to know more, and care they will research, but maybe it might scare a few away, that only want to put those 2 chins together to experience the miracle of birth (gag)
I'm usually a chipper person, but I am discovering with my old age of 40 that my tolerance for B.S just isn't what it used to be!!!

 

[chin-nw]

Sometimes you just can't fix stupid! The things people do amazes me, while other times I just shake my head and say whatever!!!!

I have told people about the risks of breeding, why they should breed for quality if they do care at all, and about the lethal factor. I don't tell them that this means a certain percentage won't be born, maybe as a discouragement, if they really want to know more, and care they will research, but maybe it might scare a few away, that only want to put those 2 chins together to experience the miracle of birth (gag)
I'm usually a chipper person, but I am discovering with my old age of 40 that my tolerance for B.S just isn't what it used to be!!!

I agree. You can't fix (or successfully argue) with someone like that. They feel they know what their doing and that's that. And they feel that everyone else is stupid. It's very sad. But you can't do much about it. When people come to me and want a male to go with their female or vice versa. I try to explain the outcome, the ups and downs of breeding. Sometimes I am successful and they choose a same sex chin instead. Other times, I dont hear from them again and I know that they will probably go to someone else and do it anyway. You cant fix stupid

 

[greychins]

I'm usually a chipper person, but I am discovering with my old age of 40 that my tolerance for B.S just isn't what it used to be!!!

I'm not sure it's even old age that makes the tolerance go down, I think it's the amount of exposure to stupid! Because I'm only 26 and my tolerance for bs has gone waaaay down in the years I've had chins and done rescue. I got a call a few weeks ago from someone who had a male and wanted a female. So I asked if they wanted to breed - they said no, but mentioned their male wouldn't get along with other males. I asked if they tried, and they said no, but they said they knew two males wouldn't get along, partially because he was already too old (3). So I nicely explained to them that we've paired up males as old as 7 years old and they live together perfectly fine and males get along with other males perfectly fine. She was interested in getting one of the rescue females, rather than the occasional pedigreed chin that we have for sale, and I told her, we wouldn't sell her a rescue female to breed, but if she wanted a companion for her male chin, we'd gladly help her get a male and help explain how to best intro them for the best results. She said thanks and hung up. Um... yeah she didn't want to breed *rolls eyes*. I could see the bs from a mile away.

At this point, I've gotten to the point where if people want to breed, fine, but at least admit it (and then, please breed responsibly). If she had said yeah she wanted to breed, I would have pointed her to shows, to other reputable breeders within a few hours drive where she could get quality pedigreed chins, and so on and so forth... but since she "didn't want to breed" but wanted a female... she wasn't getting any help with her byb-ing from me.

The people who do want to breed and are serious about getting pedigreed chins and all... I'll tell them where to get chins, tell them to check out the forum and chinnation, and help them along... and I will also tell them some of the bad experiences we've had with chins and pregnancies that have gone wrong, or our one rescue that came in pregnant, gave birth and started bleeding, and $700 later both she and the 3 babies had passed....and some people, once hearing the reality and what can go wrong, realize it's not for them. But it seems that some people just don't care. Some people hear that, then it dawns on them that I will not adopt them out a male rescue and a female rescue for dirt cheap, and they move on to craiglist... and then I get a call 4 months later "OMGGGG!!!! The females in labor and I think the kits stuck!!! I can see the head but that's it!!! And the female's crying!! Remember me? I called wanting the male and female rescues?!? What do I doooooo?????" Can't fix stupid. That really is the truth. And why they call me (why they even save my number?) I have no idea. Call a vet....

 

[Riven]

I think this has kind of gotten off topic so I think I'm okay to say the most uncreative think I've heard is "Can't fix stupid"... over, and over, and over, and over again. It exactly lets me know how our History teacher who was an English major got sick of hearing the word "crap" all of the time, and told us it was so uncreative and we must not be able to think for ourselves.

Anyway, I can't back this up, but I've been told that some of the best white breeders have bred white to white in some situations. Should everyone do it? No. Will it kill the chins, will it result in lesser fur qualities? I don't know, I've never done it, and a lot of people say it will, but then again I don't think they have either. Should it be done, there is probably better ways. Will byb's care? No.

 

[Twilight Chinchillas]

I think this has kind of gotten off topic so I think I'm okay to say the most uncreative think I've heard is "Can't fix stupid"... over, and over, and over, and over again. It exactly lets me know how our History teacher who was an English major got sick of hearing the word "crap" all of the time, and told us it was so uncreative and we must not be able to think for ourselves.

Yes, I'm not the most creative one when it comes to how I feel in words, but despite how often it's heard, sometimes the most uncreative phrase is the best fit for that particular individual, but then I'm not on here to nitpick.

 

[dcfluegel]

hrm... perhaps a more erudite and creative restatement of my quoting of Ron White's saucy little bon mot would more accurately revolve around the recurring phenomenon of persistent frustration caused by semi-informed individuals making decisions with no regard to potential repercussions for any other living being but themselves...

better?

I still think Mr. White summarized it nicely, with a gentle flair for homespun witticism, but what do I know...

good times!

 

[dcfluegel]

and while I have been given to understand that the DIRECT impact of the white on white breeding will not harm the parents, per se, I was under the impression that mishaps with births/ miscarriages and similar incidents could cause a significant amount of stress/ trauma for the mama chin, but I could be mis-informed in this...

 

[AZChins]

Yep...good times.

 

[ticklechin]

This is still a ......whatever.

 

[kathiva]

This is still a ......whatever.

Well, no, not necessarily, because the person regardless of breeding whites to whites, in his ad, he is encouraging people to breed them, and in certain way, who knows where he got them from, they might be pedigreed or not, but they are not the best quality either, and I asked him where did he get them from, and he didn't respond, so it tells me that he doesn't care that he was breeding them, and what he was breeding, and he is still encouraging people to continue to breed crappy chins, I told him that he should sell them separate, but who knows if he will listen.

That's why sometimes I see people that are selling breeding pairs of pet store chins, and I try to encourage them to sell them separate and not make the chins breed again,

 

[ticklechin]

This is not a breeding/baby question, its a rant that is why the whatever. People can beech all they want about breeding practices, the recipiant 9 times out of 10 tells you to blow off so frankly why bother.