Nationals

[Linda]

There's only a low probability that I'll be able to attend Nationals, but I wanted to check out when and where it will be. After reading the info on the MCBA site, I have some questions. (Sorry this got so long.)

1. I can see that a pelt show precedes the live animal show. I had never heard of a pelt show. Do pelt shows precede most state and other chinchilla shows? Is it just as it sounds? People bring pelts from their chins, and the pelts are judged most likely on things like fur density/quality, chin size, etc.? Are they judged on the quality of how they are pelted (if that's a word)? Are they only standard chins or also mutations?

2. Grooming takes place from 6 - 9 am. What is involved in grooming a chin for show? Is it done in the same hall as the judging? Are those entering assigned an area or do people find a space and set up grooming tables? About how long does it take to groom a chin for show? What tools/combs/etc. are needed?

3. What constitutes "ready to be classified" in this sentence: "Animals and pelts MUST be ready to be classified or they will not be included in the show." Who does the classifying? I can see that there are four classes based on age and sex of chin, but that doesn't appear to be what is meant by classifying. Classifying is the color phase? I can see a few listed like medium, medium dark, dark medium for standards and just light, medium, and dark for the mutations. Say I had a beige. Is there a preferred phase or are light beiges equal to dark beiges? And are the phases relative to what is entered or absolute (like the beige class being split into about three equal groups or can you have 20 light beiges and 2 dark beiges)?

4. Are the claiming and the auction the same thing? My guess is that the owner puts a starting price on the chin, and it is then claimed by the highest bidder at the end of the show.

5. The info states: "Animals not entered in the show will be caged and displayed in a specially marked area." Why would an animal be at Nationals and not entered? Are these animals for sale but not entered in the show? Can animals be sold at set prices or are all animal sales done through the auction/claiming process?

6. Live animals are limited to 20 in each color section per exhibitor. These appear to be the color sections and order of colors: "Animals must be entered in the following order: white, sapphire, violet, beige, black, ebony." Black must mean black velvet? I have a brown velvet. How does she fit into these classes? I can see colors with ebony (wraps) are put with the agouti version of the wrap, but I don't see colors like brown velvet unless it's considered "extra dark beige" which really doesn't seem to fit. And extra dark beige is used for violets and beiges.

7. Do the judges actually touch the chins? The references I see only use the word "look" in conjunction with the judges.

8. What is the "bar?" I can see the description: "The bar is the white section between the underfur and the tip." So this is the banding of the fur on an agouti animal? I'm guessing you wouldn't have a bar on whites (unless a silver) and ebonies (at least the extra dark).

9. Is "Naturalle" the same as standard? And standards are done in the middle of the mutations?

Linda

 

[Sandi]

M.C.B.A. 2010 National Live Animal and Pelt Show

March 20, 2010

Place: 4-H Building Auburn, Indiana

http://chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8852

Sorry, can't answer your other questions...

 

[mishalaa]

1. I can see that a pelt show precedes the live animal show. I had never heard of a pelt show. Do pelt shows precede most state and other chinchilla shows? Is it just as it sounds? People bring pelts from their chins, and the pelts are judged most likely on things like fur density/quality, chin size, etc.? Are they judged on the quality of how they are pelted (if that's a word)? Are they only standard chins or also mutations?

Nationals is the only MCBA show in which there is also a pelt show. They are judged on their quality, for mostly the same things live animals are judged - density, veiling coverage, size, clarity, prime. I haven't really seen the quality of taking the pelt mentioned in the comments, although they have mentioned taking the pelt too early/late in regards to the animal being in prime. But there are only four people that show pelts and they have been pelting for a long time, so they're skilled enough to take the pelts without a lot of noticeable damage. But yea, I'm sure if there were damage to the pelt due to the pelting process, it would be mentioned. And yes, mutation pelts are shown as well.

2. Grooming takes place from 6 - 9 am. What is involved in grooming a chin for show? Is it done in the same hall as the judging? Are those entering assigned an area or do people find a space and set up grooming tables? About how long does it take to groom a chin for show? What tools/combs/etc. are needed?

You comb out the dead fur, and try to make it look as smooth and plush as possible. Also, trim the hair on the tails so it doesn't cast over the body. Yes, grooming is done in the show hall. There is no assigned area, people just kind of pick out a spot and have at it. The time it takes to groom one chin varies - about 10 minutes per chin I'd say is average. If you are showing quite a few, it's a good idea to do the rough combing and trim the tails the night before. I use two combs - #4 "rough" and #2 "fine", barber scissors to trim tails, and a lint roller to finish. I bring a little bit of dust and baby wipes too in case of pee stains.

3. What constitutes "ready to be classified" in this sentence: "Animals and pelts MUST be ready to be classified or they will not be included in the show." Who does the classifying? I can see that there are four classes based on age and sex of chin, but that doesn't appear to be what is meant by classifying. Classifying is the color phase? I can see a few listed like medium, medium dark, dark medium for standards and just light, medium, and dark for the mutations. Say I had a beige. Is there a preferred phase or are light beiges equal to dark beiges? And are the phases relative to what is entered or absolute (like the beige class being split into about three equal groups or can you have 20 light beiges and 2 dark beiges)?

Ready to classify means groomed and in the show cage. Classifying is done by volunteers, usually a sanctioned judge and/or a long time rancher does the actual classifying while anyone can help do the paperwork. Yes, classifying is color phase - deciding if a standard is light, medium, dark medium, medium dark, dark, or extra dark - and likewise with the other colors. There is a bias to favor darker animals, of any color, but theoretically lighter phased chins are judged equally to darker phased ones. The phases are relative - you can have 2 light beiges, no medium beiges, and 30 dark beiges. A chin will not be classed as something it's not just to fill a quota.

4. Are the claiming and the auction the same thing? My guess is that the owner puts a starting price on the chin, and it is then claimed by the highest bidder at the end of the show.

I don't know much about the auction at Nationals. I think it's similar to claiming but a minimum price is set by the owner, then multiple bids can be accepted and the highest bid at the end of the show gets the animal - rather than it going to first person willing to pay the owner's claim price.

5. The info states: "Animals not entered in the show will be caged and displayed in a specially marked area." Why would an animal be at Nationals and not entered? Are these animals for sale but not entered in the show? Can animals be sold at set prices or are all animal sales done through the auction/claiming process?

Some chins aren't show quality - maybe they have a fur slip or are way out of prime. They might still be breeding quality, but just wouldn't show well that day, so an owner might decide not to enter them, but still want to sell them. So yes, the non-show auction animals get their own table away from the show tables, where people can bid on them just like they can bid on the ones in the show.

6. Live animals are limited to 20 in each color section per exhibitor. These appear to be the color sections and order of colors: "Animals must be entered in the following order: white, sapphire, violet, beige, black, ebony." Black must mean black velvet? I have a brown velvet. How does she fit into these classes? I can see colors with ebony (wraps) are put with the agouti version of the wrap, but I don't see colors like brown velvet unless it's considered "extra dark beige" which really doesn't seem to fit. And extra dark beige is used for violets and beiges.

Yes, black is black velvet. Your brown velvet would either be classed as an extra dark beige OR a TOV beige. I think the MCBA did away with the TOV beige class, though, so most likely she would be an XD beige. When animals are classified, they look at the top of the animal's back. The black gene causes the veiling to darken, so brown velvets, TOV violets, TOV ebs, etc usually get put in the extra dark phase. That page on the show info site should say extra dark violet for the Violet section, that must be a copy/paste error. All chins are agouti, even ebonies have banded fur. It's masked in the XD ebonies/wraps, but still there.

7. Do the judges actually touch the chins? The references I see only use the word "look" in conjunction with the judges.

No. The chins remain in the show cages. The judges can and will move the cages around, hold them up near the light, tip them to see bellies, etc. But they do not touch the animals.

8. What is the "bar?" I can see the description: "The bar is the white section between the underfur and the tip." So this is the banding of the fur on an agouti animal? I'm guessing you wouldn't have a bar on whites (unless a silver) and ebonies (at least the extra dark).

That's what the bar is, that white band on the fur shaft, just below the tips. No visible bar on the whites (except in some of the marked areas) unless it's a silver - a silver must have a visible bar over the entire animal - and no visible bar on the darker ebs/wraps (though wraps aren't classed as light-XD, they just get the one phase in each section. In this case, you can have a homo beige tan judged in the same class as a chocolate.). Again, all chins are agouti, so even though the bar is masked or not visible, it is still there genetically.

9. Is "Naturalle" the same as standard? And standards are done in the middle of the mutations?

Yes, naturalle is a more official sounding name for standards. And yes, they're done in the middle - the order of the colors was chosen to go from light (white) to dark (ebony) to give the judge's eyes a chance to adjust. Standards are darker than beiges but not as dark as blacks.

 

[tunes]

Excellent post Mish. Very informative for anyone who hasn't attended Nationals (or any show really) before.

 

[Linda]

Excellent post Mish. Very informative for anyone who hasn't attended Nationals (or any show really) before.

I want to second that. Thank you!!! Thank you for the fabulous response!

I have a few follow up questions (and now I really want to go to Nationals).

>>>Some chins aren't show quality - maybe they have a fur slip or are way out of prime.

What is a "fur slip?"

And it seems you only show chins up to about 14 months of age, so is about a year of age considered "prime" for show purposes?

>>>No. The chins remain in the show cages. The judges can and will move the cages around, hold them up near the light, tip them to see bellies, etc. But they do not touch the animals.

This is surprising to me, but it really does show how important getting the chin ready for show is. The appearance has to show the chin in its best light. If a long-haired mutation pops up in chins, it will be interesting to see if there are changes.

>>>a silver must have a visible bar over the entire animal

It took me a while to figure out what a silver is, and this helps me out a lot. I'd like to see one in person.

Is breeding a silver mostly a game of chance meaning they randomly pop up in white litters or can you increase your chances by selectively breeding for them? Since white is homozygous lethal, it can't breed true, but does breeding with a silver parent increase your chances of having silver kits? Would it be considered ethical to breed two silvers (or any two whites for that matter)?

Thanks again!
Linda

 

[tunes]

What is a "fur slip?"

And it seems you only show chins up to about 14 months of age, so is about a year of age considered "prime" for show purposes?

You know when you go to pick up your chin every now and again and a big ball of fur comes out, but you have no chin in hand? That's fur slip.

A chin will go in and out of prime many times, but optimal time for showing chins is 7-9 months.

This is surprising to me, but it really does show how important getting the chin ready for show is. The appearance has to show the chin in its best light. If a long-haired mutation pops up in chins, it will be interesting to see if there are changes.

Once you get those puppies groomed nobody touches them. Their fur would absorb the oils in your hands and they would definitely not look their best. Plus, if the judges had to remove all the chins from show cages to evaluate them, it would not only be incredibly time consuming (and Nationals is long enough as is!), but you could end up with a chin getting loose, a chin getting hurt (foot stuck in the cage, etc.), or fur slippage like crazy as most of the chins shown by large rangers are rarely if ever handled, so the chin would freak out. For that matter, even a chin that is handled frequently would freak out with all the other chins, the people, the heat from the show lamps. It just wouldn't be safe or practical.

Is breeding a silver mostly a game of chance meaning they randomly pop up in white litters or can you increase your chances by selectively breeding for them? Since white is homozygous lethal, it can't breed true, but does breeding with a silver parent increase your chances of having silver kits? Would it be considered ethical to breed two silvers (or any two whites for that matter)?

I have a silver male here who, when he throws a white, always throws silvers. He is in with a dark standard female. I have another silver who is hit and miss, I get one every once in a while. So it's really a crapshoot, just like with anything else. You can breed two whites together, but the odds of getting a totally crap animal are high. Whites typically have weaker fur to begin with, so putting two whites together just doubles the odds of having even worse fur. There's nothing unethical about it, just most people won't do it due to the reason above.

 

[Spoof]

Good post Mish!

Plus, if the judges had to remove all the chins from show cages....but you could end up with a chin getting loose, a chin getting hurt (foot stuck in the cage, etc.), or fur slippage like crazy... chin would freak out.

All that and no mention of the judge loosing a finger... some chins are extremely angry at this point and it's not uncommon for the judge to get peed on or bit just handling the cage.

That brings up another rarely mentioned but important no no - do not pass a chin in a show cage over other chins. It's easy to forget, but devastating when they pee on the guy below. It's happened at the last two shows I've been at.

so is about a year of age considered "prime" for show purposes?

Like Peg said, they start at 7 months and prime regularly throughout their lives. With most colors you want to show before a year due to oxidization. If you're a really good groomer you can fake it when they're not in prime, but you can't do squat if they're oxidized.

Since my entire herd is priming I took a couple pictures for you.
#1 Needs a little dust but could do well right now. (13 months)
#2 Looks rough but don't be fooled, fur blowers groom out well and she's almost done priming. (18 months)
#3 Is a lost cause, even the best couldn't cover up those priming lines. (12 months)

I've outlined the prime lines in blue. If you were to pelt these chins and look at the bottom of the pelt you'd see white areas where the fur has stopped growing and black areas corresponding to the lines where the fur is actively growing. It looks like marble cake under there. )

 

[alli713]

This is surprising to me, but it really does show how important getting the chin ready for show is. The appearance has to show the chin in its best light. If a long-haired mutation pops up in chins, it will be interesting to see if there are changes.

There actually is a long haired mutation, they're called angoras. But they aren't shown to my knowledge. They wouldn't show well since the judging is looking for stand up fur (amongst other things) and angoras don't have the fur that pelters would want and judging is based on pelting.

Here's links to a couple angoras:
http://www.chinchillas.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=831281088
http://www.chinchillas.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=925253003
http://www.chinchillas.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=880248998
http://www.chinchillas.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=859094889

 

[mishalaa]

Priming is when a chin's coat looks it's absolute best - all the new fur has completely grown in. It happens every 6 months or so - the first prime usually 9-10months of age. As mentioned above, you run the risk of oxidation if you wait for later primes, so it's best to show chins before 14 months of age. When a chin is priming, you can blow into its fur and see the bar on the new fur - it looks like two white rings. The top ring is the bar on the old fur and the bottom ring is the bar on the new fur coming in.

Our understanding of the white gene is somewhat limited - at this time we cannot reliably predict what markings will be produced out of a certain type of white. That goes for silvers, extreme whites, predominantly whites, and so on. I've been working with a cellular biologist to try and figure a few things out, specifically regarding whites and ebonies, but I just don't have an ideal herd size to work with yet.

Long-haired angoras do exist, they have not yet been shown as their quality isn't yet on par with the other mutations. Also, they're kind of worthless to a pelter at this time as since they're still fairly rare, they're impossible to match for a garment.

 

[Linda]

All that and no mention of the judge loosing a finger... some chins are extremely angry at this point and it's not uncommon for the judge to get peed on or bit just handling the cage.

I'll never be anything but a small breeder. If I go to a show, I'm wondering if I should even participate in the claiming at all. I'd want a chin that was handleable, and if you're bidding without any idea of temperament, wouldn't that exclude all bidders except other ranchers who aren't as worried about temperament? I can't imagine considering buying a chin I hadn't touched, but I may be the exception.

That brings up another rarely mentioned but important no no - do not pass a chin in a show cage over other chins. It's easy to forget, but devastating when they pee on the guy below. It's happened at the last two shows I've been at.

How is that dealt with? The owner can't identify themselves, and they'd be the only ones to groom their animal.

Like Peg said, they start at 7 months and prime regularly throughout their lives. With most colors you want to show before a year due to oxidization. If you're a really good groomer you can fake it when they're not in prime, but you can't do squat if they're oxidized.

Since my entire herd is priming I took a couple pictures for you.
#1 Needs a little dust but could do well right now. (13 months)
#2 Looks rough but don't be fooled, fur blowers groom out well and she's almost done priming. (18 months)
#3 Is a lost cause, even the best couldn't cover up those priming lines. (12 months)

I've outlined the prime lines in blue. If you were to pelt these chins and look at the bottom of the pelt you'd see white areas where the fur has stopped growing and black areas corresponding to the lines where the fur is actively growing. It looks like marble cake under there. )

Thank you for the photos! I was misunderstanding priming.

Linda

 

[Spoof]

How is that dealt with? The owner can't identify themselves, and they'd be the only ones to groom their animal.

I'm a little confused by the "owner can't id themselves"? Most animals are tagged because you've always got a few escapees. I believe it is required at nationals? but it is not required at state shows.

As to how it's dealt with, you just apologize and hope they have a backup animal. If it's a smaller breeder and a small show or field day the judge has judged it as if it wasn't peed on, but for bigger state shows it does hurt your chances.

Here's a link to some show photos so you can see how a small show is set up. The animals get moved quite a bit. The cages are in numerical order on the tables so you grab cages as you're grooming, write down which animal you're putting in that cage, put a pen card on it and turn your sheet into the ribbon table. When it's time to sort, they get busy. Sort, and sort some more, then they judge, judging is a ton of shuffling and runners are constantly bringing animals back and forth. High placing animals often go onto a table set aside so they can be brought up for checks/comparisons and later competition.

I'd want a chin that was handleable, and if you're bidding without any idea of temperament, wouldn't that exclude all bidders except other ranchers who aren't as worried about temperament?

You can usually tell. Ranchers do care about temperament, they'll be the first to tell you who's mom made an earmuff for biting a grandkid. Biters and peers are going to bite, pee and grouch just as much as they would at home when you walk by or look at them. You can also ask the breeder, most know their animals well. If the chin is in claiming but not showing the sellers are usually happy to let you handle them.

When someone approaches Ronda or I about an animal before the show and want to know it's temperament we will let you groom it. ) Not all breeders do that but some will. Some also have backup animals they'll let you groom and show if you want to practice.

 

[Becky]

Ear tags are mandatory for Empress shows but not for MCBA.

Once the shows start, only animal handlers are allowed to be with the animals and touch the cages. They are trained to not pass a chin over another one, if the show chairperson is doing their job. I have been to a ton of shows and never seen it happen.

 

[Linda]

There actually is a long haired mutation, they're called angoras. But they aren't shown to my knowledge. They wouldn't show well since the judging is looking for stand up fur (amongst other things) and angoras don't have the fur that pelters would want and judging is based on pelting.

Thank you for the links! I think the angora chins are quite attractive and hope they make it more fully into the market (and at reasonable prices). I still don't think with the mind of a pelter and didn't even recognize the extra challenges the gene would present.

As mentioned above, you run the risk of oxidation if you wait for later primes, so it's best to show chins before 14 months of age.

Do all color oxidize?

Our understanding of the white gene is somewhat limited - at this time we cannot reliably predict what markings will be produced out of a certain type of white. That goes for silvers, extreme whites, predominantly whites, and so on. I've been working with a cellular biologist to try and figure a few things out, specifically regarding whites and ebonies, but I just don't have an ideal herd size to work with yet.

Are there any websites that more fully discuss the genetics of whites and ebonies? I've seen quite a few with basic predictors of color given a certain set of parents but would like to see a site that discuss the genetics especially for whites and ebonies. I haven't even seen a consistency on whether ebony is dominant or recessive. And there might be some similar genes to whites in other small animal species. There are certainly some similiarities that I have seen but don't know enough about white chins to see if there is any cross-over.

I'm a little confused by the "owner can't id themselves"? Most animals are tagged because you've always got a few escapees. I believe it is required at nationals? but it is not required at state shows.

Sorry. I was making some assumptions. I assumed this was happening by animal handlers during the show when the judges were present, so I meant the owner could not step up and try to deal with the issue and put the animal back on the show table. It sounds like this isn't something that can be readily dealt with, so the animal is done being shown for the day.

When someone approaches Ronda or I about an animal before the show and want to know it's temperament we will let you groom it. Not all breeders do that but some will. Some also have backup animals they'll let you groom and show if you want to practice.

This is a wonderful option for the newbies like me. I'm glad to know such an option exists sometimes.

On the MCBA website, about the only reference I see to color is this one:

"One Step Down In Color
"again this reference to color doesn't mean it is a medium as opposed to a light medium but refers to the clearness of that particular shade. 'One step down' tells you precisely that there is something better by one degree."

First, given the classification categories, it appears in chinchillas that there is no ideal color for any single mutation. For instance, the ideal heterozygous beige is not light, medium or dark. The complete spectrum for the gene is accepted, and I'm guessing some breeders select for light, others medium, and others dark beige.

Second, the definition above refers to "one degree" and specifically states this is not medium versus light medium. I don't know the term "one degree." What is that referring to? What is "clearness of shade?"

Clear is defined as "having precisely the desired color, it's very sharp in appearance," but I'm not understanding what a "very sharp" appearance is. Maybe this is what I'm used to calling the "markings" in other small animal species.

And maybe I have to see these to understand and you'll say I should ask at a show where someone can point it out to me in actual animals. That's okay as a response.

Thank you for all of the replies! I know I'm asking a lot of questions.

Linda

 

[Spoof]

Thanks Becky. Someone always has extras so if your animals are not tagged they can do it for you.

Do all color oxidize?

Yes, with a tentative observation; sapphires and viophires do not appear to oxidize with optimal housing, but all hair (chin, human, otherwise) does with exposure to sun, chemicals and age.

I assumed this was happening by animal handlers during the show

Like Becky said, they have a chat with the handlers beforehand as anyone can volunteer for it. Last time it was someone not noticing chins under the table, the time before someone's kids were moving chins from the grooming tables. Grooming for a large show is like a flock of swimming ducks - everyone appears calm and unruffled but underneath we're paddling like mad. It just doesn't show at 6AM.

Are there any websites that more fully discuss the genetics of whites and ebonies?

There's a few people you can corner at shows and have a real interesting discussion on this. But no, it isn't well documented.

I haven't even seen a consistency on whether ebony is dominant or recessive.

Both whites and ebonies come in dominant and recessive forms. Saying as much there are also many different strains of each. None well documented, though charcoal is accepted as a recessive ebony mutation in Europe, and the ebony you see on the show tables in the U.S. is considered dominant.

On the MCBA website, about the only reference I see to color is this one:

Hooo boy. I'll let someone else have that one.

However;

Clear is defined as "having precisely the desired color, it's very sharp in appearance," but I'm not understanding what a "very sharp" appearance is....you'll say I should ask at a show where someone can point it out to me in actual animals. That's okay as a response.

When you walk into a show hall and there's 100 standards in cages, there are always going to be a select few that draw your eye and captivate you.
You can chalk it up to "show appeal" but bright, clear (blue) animals just suck you in like eye candy. Or, as Peg might say; Gerard Butler on a crowded beach... bonus if he isn't wearing a shirt.

 

[shuboyje]

This thread should help you with clarity:

http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9513


As for the genetics behind ebony and white, both are a mess. The common whites are a single gene dominant, but there are MANY different strains that are not tracked or differentiated between, all of which behave differently pattern-wise. Ebony is trickier, it is not a genotype, it is a phenotype. If you can wrap your head around that it makes life a lot easier. There are multiple mutations mixed together again without differentiation in the ebony phenotype.

 

[mishalaa]

Do all color oxidize?

To varying degrees. Beiges are particularly prone to it, sapphires are resistant to it.

Are there any websites that more fully discuss the genetics of whites and ebonies? I've seen quite a few with basic predictors of color given a certain set of parents but would like to see a site that discuss the genetics especially for whites and ebonies. I haven't even seen a consistency on whether ebony is dominant or recessive. And there might be some similar genes to whites in other small animal species. There are certainly some similiarities that I have seen but don't know enough about white chins to see if there is any cross-over.

None really well. Ebony isn't a gene, it's a phenotype. Seven different genes have been identified to produce ebony, some of them are dominant, some of them recessive, and at least one is accumulative. As for the Wilson White, I am not certain what type of white mutation it is. It appears to be a white spotting mutation similar to bi-color cats or Holstein cattle - where the normal deployment of melanocytes is interrupted, but they prioritize and populate crucial areas first. In the case of chins - the ears and base of the tail, then other areas after that, with toes and tip of the tail being of least priority. However, the silver phase of Wilson White indicates that melanocytes are uniformly distributed and present at every hair follicle, just completely inhibited in the other phases and partially inhibited in the silver phase. If that's the case, I don't know what to make of the patterning on mosaics.

First, given the classification categories, it appears in chinchillas that there is no ideal color for any single mutation. For instance, the ideal heterozygous beige is not light, medium or dark. The complete spectrum for the gene is accepted, and I'm guessing some breeders select for light, others medium, and others dark beige.

Eh, as I said before, there is a bias to prefer dark, so I think some breeders do select for darker phases. But yes, all phases are accepted. At MCBA shows, they aren't judged against each other until going for section champ (i.e. the best light beige of the show, the best medium beige, the best dark beige, and the best tan compete against each other to be the best beige in the show) - and this is when that bias comes in. Usually the darker phases will win the award, unless one of the lighter phases is just more clear/sharp/bright/whatever you want to call it.

Clear is defined as "having precisely the desired color, it's very sharp in appearance," but I'm not understanding what a "very sharp" appearance is. Maybe this is what I'm used to calling the "markings" in other small animal species.

Just out of curiosity, what other small animals are you familiar with?

 

[Linda]

Ebony isn't a gene, it's a phenotype. Seven different genes have been identified to produce ebony, some of them are dominant, some of them recessive, and at least one is accumulative.

I've heard it's each of these things but don't remember reading anywhere that multiple genes, let alone seven, had been identified. This might be an interesting one to work with although I guess you have to acquire animals from someone who knows enough about their lines to have an idea of what they're providing. I'll have to look into this some more.

As for the Wilson White, I am not certain what type of white mutation it is.

One question I've had is about beige and white. I've seen plenty of pink whites but don't remember ever seeing a beige mosaic. Is it just my limited experience? Beige is very common. Gray mosaics are very common. Pink whites are semi-common, but I've only seen totally white animals with pale ears and not beige mosaics.

Eh, as I said before, there is a bias to prefer dark, so I think some breeders do select for darker phases. But yes, all phases are accepted. At MCBA shows, they aren't judged against each other until going for section champ (i.e. the best light beige of the show, the best medium beige, the best dark beige, and the best tan compete against each other to be the best beige in the show) - and this is when that bias comes in. Usually the darker phases will win the award, unless one of the lighter phases is just more clear/sharp/bright/whatever you want to call it.

I know you did mention darker tends to be preferred. The fact that there doesn't appear to be a color standard stating an ideal and the fact that animals are classified at all and given awards for all color phases is a new concept in judging for me. I'm used to a single ideal per mutation or combination of mutations. And if we take the case of beige just as an example. The homozygous form tends to be lighter which would mean it's harder for a homozygous beige to beat a heterozygous beige. Perhaps that is why I rarely see the homozygous beiges.

Just out of curiosity, what other small animals are you familiar with.

I'm most familiar with hamsters -- all four species shown in California. I regularly judge the four species and have worked on documenting new mutations in three of the species. We look to the mouse literature as our key resource, and of course the mutations available in mice are far more varied and complicated than hamsters or any other small animal species or breed if I'm not mistaken.
Linda

 

[mishalaa]

One question I've had is about beige and white. I've seen plenty of pink whites but don't remember ever seeing a beige mosaic. Is it just my limited experience? Beige is very common. Gray mosaics are very common. Pink whites are semi-common, but I've only seen totally white animals with pale ears and not beige mosaics.

They're not common but there are a few: http://www.chinchillas.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=814646636 Pink whites typically express as predominantly white, though usually you can find beige hairs on them somewhere.

 

[Linda]

They're not common but there are a few: http://www.chinchillas.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=814646636

Are these ranchers, hobby breeders, or who that are bidding thousands of dollars on chins? They call it a rare phenotype, but if it doesn't produce more of the same and is just random, I'm missing the high value placed on it.

And what does the word "hybrid" signify in chinchillas?

He is a very pretty animal.
Linda

 

[shuboyje]

most of the big money bidders are overseas, in countries without quality chins.