why mickey died...

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I know that a heart stick can be very traumatic for an owner, but if it is done correctly it is very humane for the animal. Small animals are so very hard to get a good vein on and many euthanasia solutions are thick an require a good vein. An IP injection, into the abdomen, can take a long time. Like I said, I know it can be hard to watch, but if anyone ever has to be involved in one, its not as bad as it seems. I hope that knowledge helps someone along the line.

I'm glad you have some answers and hope that your other kids have long an happy lives.
 
I just googled heart stick and was horrified by the articles I found!!! :eek:

Why can they not just over-gas the chin so that it passes, oblivious to everything. I think that would be less traumatic for me as an owner to watch than a little gas and THEN the heart stick. Again, I ask, why can they not just keep them under until they die???
 
You can over gas them but it is slow and often pretty expensive. I didn't say that a heart stick is pretty, its not. It is fast though and not as bad for the animal as it is for us watching.
 
I just googled heart stick and was horrified by the articles I found!!! :eek:

Why can they not just over-gas the chin so that it passes, oblivious to everything. I think that would be less traumatic for me as an owner to watch than a little gas and THEN the heart stick. Again, I ask, why can they not just keep them under until they die???

Gas is not 100% effective. That is why they gas, then confirm with the stick. I have seen animals wake up from gas a long time later after vitals could not be found, and do you really want an animal to wake up cold and alone after that? It is required to do a second method of euthanasia for good reason, and when the animal is as metabolically slowed as it is after gas, then you can't rely on anything but chemically stopping heart or brain activity. It is not pleasant, but it is better than the possible alternative.
 
It can be very slow and harder on their systems to gas them all the way out. Plus they can appear dead but not be yet if people are not careful about checking for vitals.

There are things that people do willingly that are less painful. For example a spay you cut open the entire abdomen remove innards, then stitch it all back up, and healing takes weeks. But people don't hesitate to do this. A heart stick is quick and effective when needed. If anyone's seen their pet put down via IV, this is ever faster.
 
You can over gas them but it is slow and often pretty expensive. I didn't say that a heart stick is pretty, its not. It is fast though and not as bad for the animal as it is for us watching.
Not true, a heart stick without anesthetizing first is very traumatic and painful. I've heard many a story of animals screaming during a heart stick. Obviously traumatic for both the animal and their owner.
 
Thankfully I have never had that experience. The few that I have been involved in that were not sedated first were cases where the animal was very bad off and didn't struggle at all. Any type of euthanasia can be ugly though, no matter how it is done. A friend of mine had a horse that reacted badly to the euthanasia solution and totally freaked out. He screamed and flailed for what seemed like forever before he died. No one could get close enough to him to do anything about it though. The bottom line I think is that no matter what method you use, sometimes it is going to be peaceful, and sometimes it is going to be nasty. We can only hope that our experiences are good ones because the bad ones stay with you forever.
 
Wait, then I have a question. When I had to have my rat put down, they injected something into her belly and she died in my arms. It took about five minutes for her heart to stop. What was that?
 
I'm a CET (Certified Euthanasia Tech) and I just want to mention - it is unethical and in most states completely illegal under animal cruelty laws to do a cardiac injection of any kind unless the animal is under anesthesia at a surgical level (so deeply unconsious that the animal cannot feel pain on ANY level). Any vet that would perform this kind of injection without this level of anesthesia is using VERY bad practices. If they are going to do a cardiac injection and do not automatically knock your animal down, INSIST that they gas your animal down until there is no blink respose.

IP injections are actually very humane, and do not necessarily require the stress of masking an animal down. If they are done at the correct dose, the animal's brain shuts down in a specific order, taking the animal through the stages of anesthesia/unconsiousness before death (the med used in euthanasia was actually used as a surgical anesthetic for a long time, until they discovered better drugs that wore off faster), so it is literally like falling asleep. The drawback is that it takes a few minutes for this to work; it is slower but often less stressful. Cardiac and IV works essentially immediately (usually under 5 minutes) but IP generally takes 10-15 minutes if dosed correctly. (Sounds like this is the method used on your rat) However, if your animal is scared or stressed by the process of masking down with isoflorene, this is often the best euthanasia method because it is painless and low-key.

What is sounds like some of you experienced is the involuntary movement stage of surgical anesthesia - and this can be VERY disturbing to watch, especially if the drug was not dosed properly and this stage is longer than it should be. Stage 1 is when the animal is buzzed - this is the sedation level, you can compare it to when you get laughing gas at the dentist - you kind of know what is going on, but you aren't completely in control of yourself and you aren't extrodinarily worried about anything. Stage 2 is involuntary movement - you are unconscious, but your body moves without conscious input, either from reflexes or from uncontrolled signals from the brain. The goal in any anesthesia or euthanasia is to minimize this stage, because movement without intent is also movement without awareness of pain, and an animal could hurt itself unintentionally. But all anesthesia/euthanasia goes through this stage, you can't get surgical level or death without passing through this level of unconsciousness, so sometimes if an animal isn't dosed right or absorbs the drug a little too slowly then it stays in this stage long enough to be disturbing to watch (this is more likely when there are circulatory problems). Just realize that they CAN'T feel it, they don't know what's happening, and as scary as it is for us, it isn't scary at all for them - they don't even know. A lot of vets don't like giving IP in an owner-witnessed euthanaisa because it is by nature more slowly absorbed, and there is always a possibility of a stall in stage 2.

Euthanasia is not an easy thing, especially not for a pet-owner. Your vet should be sensitive to your emotional connection to your animal and do what they can to help ease the process - not everyone can watch, knowing what is happening, whatever the method used. However, it is important for you to know that done right, all these techniques, IV, IC, and IP can be done without pain and with a minimum of stress and fear for your animal. Usually this is much better than the pain of a slower death, and, whatever the form, the purpose of euthanasia is to give a release from that pain.

I recently had to euthanize one of my own chins, she had hyperplasia of her gums and was in a lot of pain, and although it was hard, I chose to do it myself so that I KNEW it was as kind and gentle as possible. She died with me right there, she was not afraid or in any additional pain. Knowing the mechanics of how modern euthanasia practices and the physiology behind it help me to know I did the best thing I could have for her. If you're like me and are interested in knowing what is happening, I'd encourage you to only trust reliable sources of information - there is a lot of misinformation out there.
 
Inca, thank you so much for such an in-depth description of the process. I hope many forum members will find this as informative as I do.
 
That was the best post ever, Inca. We should make that a sticky or put it in the FAQ or something, it would be a shame if it got buried. Thank you so much.
 
Inca thank you for that detailed explanation. I'm glad to know that most vets would not do a heart stick without anesthesia first. I have never had a single vet do it that way (without anesthesia) and I always insist on being present for the euthanasia, even when the vet would prefer I didn't. I just tell them that I cared for that pet through it's life time, and it's my duty to be there at the end. I think they are afraid I'll pass out from the trauma or something. I always cry, can't help that, but I like my voice to be the very last thing they hear, while they are still able to hear.
 
This just brought back such sad thoughts and memories of when I put my first chin down. I too cried and wouldn't let him go. My vet was sooo patient with me and let me have that time. He would enter the room and would try to take him from my arms and I don't know why, but I just couldn't let him go. It was finally when he sat and talked to me while I was holding Whiskers how euthanasia worked. I may be weird but he sure did make it sound so peaceful and with that I released my grip of Whiskers and let my vet take him. I wasn't in a place where I could be with him until the end, but I trusted my vet, he treated each animal whether it was a reptile, rodent, dog or cat as if were his own. Inca, I appreciate you posting your thoughts.
 
Hey, no problem, I'm glad it helps - it certainly helps me!

There is a lot of misunderstanding to the process, and if I didn't know how it works I would be even more scared and sad at an already difficult time. And although it is terrible to lose a loved pet, the euthanasia process is meant to make things as easy on the animal as possible. Just let me know if you have questions, I'll do my best to find the answer to them.
 
Stephanie, I've been at work all day and couldn't post until now.

THANK YOU so much for such an informative description. It is not an easy topic to have to discuss, but I feel a little better knowing that the norm is to put them into "twilight" like at the dentist. How strange that the gas is not as quick acting or as reliable.

I hope I never have to do this, but I'm afraid like somebody said earlier, that if you own a chin you will go through this; I'm certain that Dr. Fitzgerald and his staff would make it as painless as possible, for both me and my baby.

I'm with Peggy -- I, too, would want to be present, no matter how painful it would be for me, just to hold and stroke and cry and whisper to my baby as he slipped away.
 
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I would assume since the vet was good friends with you and your mom that he was able to get you the information already?
 
It would be nice to know what happened. I don't think any of the members asking for more information are trying to be pests. Chinchilla heart problems are not very common so any knowledge we can gain about it is great.
 
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