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Then there is no reason for the chins to be seized, except they were denied water for an unacceptable length of time. Personally, I hope the defense lawyers don't read this thread's comments.
 
Those types of small carriers are perfect for chins because of their size. They are able to turn around easily, but if a sudden stop is made they don't go flying around which could really hurt the animal. I much prefer those types of carriers over cat carriers because of the safety feature.
 
Rick, those are just that, transport cages. Chins are kept in them during shows and such, not for the long term. If the chins hadn't gotten there only two days before, would they have taken them out of the temporary carriers? I doubt it.
 
I know that and you know that, but they are not losing the animals for intent, but rather for proven abuse.
 
I had mentioned the day of the seizure that I liked those carriers, I thought they were nifty. I have a few of the 6-hole carriers from Shoots, and their carriers are much smaller and as Crysta said, they're made of cardboard, but they're also sturdy from the way they're made and the chins can't chew the cardboard. I'll get a photo of them later. I personally love the carriers Ralph makes, they're so easy to just scoop chins out of.

I personally know many people who show and don't feed or water their animals the night before or the day of show, so I'm not sure that I'd really call it abuse unless it was for an extended amount of time.
 
I hope that the people making decisions will be smart about this. What I mean is, while it is true that the chins may have only been there for a few days, and it seems that people have differing views on whether or not they were denied food or water for too long a time (I'm not trying to start a debate). The fact is that there were thousands of animals that were there being abused for an extended period of time. I highly doubt that the chins were so special that they were going to receive different treatment then the other animals. I would HOPE that any judge or jury would realize that it was just a matter of time for any new animals to end up in the same conditions as the ones who had been there longer.
 
From the amount of animals in there and the number of employees actually working there (which I have read varied amounts from 3-9) that was not enough man power to legitimately even take care of that many animals. I don't care which animals were in rough conditions or not. There wasn't enough resources to make sure all animals were fed and watered in a day with the large amount they had. That can just be a testament of the animals may come in fine, but why were there the remains of liquefied animals in with living animals. It takes more than a day or 2 for a body to decay that much. Then there is the added aspect of animals left in what they were transported in for more than a week without being opened just shows the irresponsibility of the place. You are dealing with living things here. You can't just lose track of boxes for extended periods.

Global Exotics was irresponsible with the amount of animals in their facility to the amount of workers they had there. That right there is neglect. It looks almost like an animal hoarding case to me. Those people get in over their heads. They don't get their animals back though.
 
If the case was hinging on the care of these chins who just came in, the company would probably win... By saying they were transporting in cruelly small cages, you're also saying that 99% of show people and breeders also use cruelly small transport cages, and then we're is it going to stop? Shows will require a weeks because we'll have to spend a week each way because the chins being moved might be stressful so every show chin will need a portable 3' x 4' cage to rest in before and after the show and kits will all die because of how these terribly small cages breeders use with no shelves won't work, and instead we'll have kits flung across the cage from a wheel when a parent jumps on it and break it's neck hitting the cage wall, but the carcass will give the kit that accidentally falls off the 3' ledge something to fall on so hopefully it only breaks it's leg instead of it's neck... sometimes people are worried about what makes THEM feel good, and not what is best for the animals. There is a difference between neglect of care, and not giving them $1000 cage set-ups. If the chins were in those carriers for weeks, or aquariums, or in nasty cages, it would be different, they are lucky because they just came in, but I can't see how the carriers are considered unfit or cruel. I'm not saying either way whether this company is right or wrong, I have speculations I prefer to keep to myself, but in the case of the carriers, I see nothing wrong, and if that makes me a bad person, so be it. If everyone who's bought a chin from a breeder or pet store thinks the chins they bought were moved there in a large pet taxi they need think about that a little more.
 
Is there any way we can take all this over to the discussion thread?
 
Riven said:
If the case was hinging on the care of these chins who just came in, the company would probably win... By saying they were transporting in cruelly small cages, you're also saying that 99% of show people and breeders also use cruelly small transport cages, and then we're is it going to stop? Shows will require a weeks because we'll have to spend a week each way because the chins being moved might be stressful so every show chin will need a portable 3' x 4' cage to rest in before and after the show and kits will all die because of how these terribly small cages breeders use with no shelves won't work, and instead we'll have kits flung across the cage from a wheel when a parent jumps on it and break it's neck hitting the cage wall, but the carcass will give the kit that accidentally falls off the 3' ledge something to fall on so hopefully it only breaks it's leg instead of it's neck... sometimes people are worried about what makes THEM feel good, and not what is best for the animals. There is a difference between neglect of care, and not giving them $1000 cage set-ups. If the chins were in those carriers for weeks, or aquariums, or in nasty cages, it would be different, they are lucky because they just came in, but I can't see how the carriers are considered unfit or cruel. I'm not saying either way whether this company is right or wrong, I have speculations I prefer to keep to myself, but in the case of the carriers, I see nothing wrong, and if that makes me a bad person, so be it. If everyone who's bought a chin from a breeder or pet store thinks the chins they bought were moved there in a large pet taxi they need think about that a little more.
Click to expand...
Well said :thumbsup:
 
I could move it, but I won't. My original comment was because people were going on and on about "those poor chins." They didn't look like poor chins to me. They looked like chins in very safe, sturdy, acceptable shipping containers. I assumed that the picture provided was to show us all how terribly the chins had been treated by shipping them in that, and that's a load of crap. People need to stop looking for drama where there is none. Yes, the chins probably went without water for a day. When I travel 16 or 18 hours in a day, my chins don't even touch their water bottles until I stop very late at night and set them up in a hotel room, and even then, some drink some don't until the middle of the night. That doesn't make me cruel or them abused.

What happened with the iguanas is a totally different story, and I cannot comment on them other than to say how sad I am that so many died. I didn't see what they were shipped in, etc., and have no way of knowing if the crates were acceptable for reptiles.

With that said, and with the other comments now over with, I will ask now that we refocus on what the thread was originally intended for. But I would appreciate it Rick, if the pictures and references to the perfectly acceptable carriers are left out of this thread.
 
I really don't see how my commentrs were taken as being against 'perfectly acceptable' carriers. I use them. QC makes what I specified. The ones I made are not near as nice as what was pictured- pictures that I provided. On the other thread I listed the SPCA's requirements which all the carriers discussed fullfill nicely.

I am not responsible for other's reactions and I don't appreciate the inference that it was my fault.

I agree completely that the chins were not abused in any way that I can see. I hope, for tactical reasons, the defense lawyers don't read that I or anyone else agrees with them.
 
No one said it was your fault Rick. You are, however, the person who gives updates every time you get them, and you are the one who posted the picture. I just wanted to point out, before anyone commented, that there was absolutely nothing wrong with those carriers.

I keep hearing a "those poor chins" tone throughout the various threads. Why? I didn't see anything wrong with them, nor did anyone else who has experience with shipping or moving chins.
 
NOLA Chins said:
I agree completely that the chins were not abused in any way that I can see.
Click to expand...

There were chins that died, though, although I believed they died because their rescuers weren't up to speed on the food requirements of the species they were rescuing and fed them inappropriately. Not sure if that is categorized as "abuse" or just ignorance.

Linda
 
Since people insist on putting emotions before intellect, may I point out that the post causing all this was a message I received from Dr Brown. Cut and pasted. Amanda added the pictures for me from the message I forwarded to her that I received from Dr Brown.

Would someone please post where anyone said the pictured carriers were unsuitable? Did you all happen to bother reading the SPCA's requirements for a suitable transport carrier I posted where I thought- silly me- discussion would happen?

You can't have it both ways. Either the chins were abused and so are 'ours' or they weren't and, by law, there was no reason to seize them. My comment about the defense lawyers was a tactical one.

I thought it was the chins that were important.
 
>There were chins that died, though, although I believed they died because their rescuers weren't up to speed on the food requirements of the species

That is correct. Bad diet given by the volunteer workers are believed by DR Brown to have led to the death of 2 chins. Several others recovered after being put on a timothy pellet diet. All are reportedly doing well.

There were 'a couple' (I don't know what that means) of chins already at GE before the last shipment came in. I have no specific information on them.

The next post here, from me, will be the go/no go notice. I have too little interest in the drama.
 
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