Recessive and Dominant Color Mutations?

Chinchilla & Hedgehog Pet Forum

Help Support Chinchilla & Hedgehog Pet Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
D

Diva Chins

Guest
So, I want to get some information straight and some input from others. I want to know the basics of chinchilla recessive and dominant mutation colors. Here's what I'm thinking:
For everything that has a carrier (Example: Standard gray vc, standard gray ec, standard gray sc) it's recessive (Violet, ebony, sapphire.) And for everything that doesn't have a carrier (Hetero beige, white mosaic, etc) that it's a dominant gene. Correct or incorrect?
And I remember reading some where that hetero was when only one of the genes was present and homo was when both were present (Example: Hetero beige vs. Homo beige) is that correct or am I remembering it falsely?

Also, does anyone have a good website that is pretty much "Chinchilla genetics for dummies"? I've got mutations pretty much down pat, but I'd like to learn more about the different 'strands' I guess you'd call it of the white mutation (I can't remember to save my life some of them that they have) if that makes sense.
I'm just looking for the basics at the moment, nothing like goldbar chinchillas currently (Even though they are extremely beautiful despite how rare.) Just the basic standard, pink white, white mosaic, beige, pink white, black velvet, ebonies, etc. Thanks!
 
Violet and sapphire are recessive, they must be homogeneous to be expressed.

There are different strains of ebony, some are dominant and some are recessive. However, they've been mixed together so much that it's hard to know what strain(s) you're working with.

Beige is an incomplete dominant. It will be expressed in the heterogeneous state, but is expressed completely in the homogeneous state.

White and TOV are both simple dominants that are lethal in the homogeneous state. They are only expressed in the heterogeneous state, any animal that inherits it homogeneously does not survive.

Any combination of Violet, Sapphire, Ebony, Beige, White and TOV (example: pink whites, brown velvets, violet wraps, etc.) is a hybrid.
 
Last edited:
Violet and sapphire are recessive, they must be homogeneous to be expressed.

There are different strains of ebony, some are dominant and some are recessive. However, they've been mixed together so much that it's hard to know what strain(s) you're working with.

Beige is an incomplete dominant. It will be expressed in the heterogeneous state, but is expressed completely in the homogeneous state.

White and TOV are both simple dominants that are lethal in the homogeneous state. They are only expressed in the heterogeneous state, any animal that inherits it homogeneously does not survive.

Any combination of Violet, Sapphire, Ebony, Beige, White and TOV (example: pink whites, brown velvets, violet wraps, etc.) is a hybrid.

Wow, that's really interesting. I know that White x White and TOV x TOV offspring are usually reabsorbed in the womb instead of the typical thought of seeing deformed kits as a result of the lethal factor.
Question: How do you get wraps? That may sound pretty stupid, but when I play around with the Chin Calculator I don't see a wrap function. Is there a certain gene mutation you have or just a random fur pattern?
Also: Me and my friend were discussing pink whites. Someone referred to their friend's pink white as an albino, I made the comment "You must mean a pink white." which lead to a big discussion. She's taking gene courses in college and said that the presence of red eyes/pink skin meant that it was an albino, so would you say that pink whites are infact albinos, or just a color mutation?
 
Pink whites are not albinos. Albinos have a complete lack of any color pigment. Pink whites are beige + white. Phenotypically, they can look very similar, although pink whites sometimes have spots of beige here and there... but I would imagine a homo pink white looks very much like an albino. Genetically, however, they are very different. Albinism is a recessive. Pink whites are dominant for both beige and white.

Wraps are hybrids of sapphire, violet or beige + ebony.
 
Altho I might add that beige plus ebony wouldn't be considered a beige wrap. It would be a tan. Also to get the wrap effect the ebony would have to be a carrier of the color. ie: v/c s/c
 
Wrap refers to when a color, such as violet, occurs in combination with ebony. The term "wrap" refers to the way the color "wraps" around the entire animal (due to the ebony), instead of having the normal white belly. I've only ever seen the term "wrap" in regards to sapphires and violets. As someone else noted, a beige ebony is not called a beige wrap, but a tan.
 
ann1 - you are correct about the violets and sapphires having to be carriers, however, with beiges, if you breed an ebony, you can get a tan without the ebony being a carrier. I've done this with a brown velvet dam and extra dark ebony sire, 3 times! [trying for chocolates!]
 
Last edited:
"Tan" and "beige wrap" are the same thing, the terms are interchangeable. Although "tan" is more widely used, MCBA recognizes and uses the term "beige wrap" at shows.

Either way, the fact remains that the animal is beige + ebony, just as sapphire wraps are sapphire + ebony and violet wraps, violet + ebony. The ebony isn't carrying anything, it is expressing in combination with one of the other mutes. (I'm not talking about parentage - violet x ebony won't get you wraps, unless the ebony parent is V/C as you said - I'm talking about the wrap itself which is violet + ebony.)

Ebony can hybridize with white and TOV as well, but they're not considered wraps.
 
Ha! So I was right about pink whites not being albinos. I was just going on basic instinct and some what logic, pretty much thinking "Well in hedgies they have albinos and actually call them albinos, why would they sugar coat it with pink white if they were really albinos?" I'll be sure to tell her about it, maybe she can talk to her teacher and learn something together.
I was wondering though, I've seen so many people talk about how standards are the backbone of the herd and considering pink whites are normally produced from a beige x white mosaic or pink white x standard if you're lucky, if they were originally produced form a beige x white mosaic pair, isn't that frowned upon? Or is it perfectly okay to breed two mutations as long as they're both great quality and complimentary if you're trying for a mutation that can only be produced through a mute x mute pairing?
I saw a few breeders websites that had only mute x mute pairs, and all the kits they had didn't look too good. Thin looking fur, no 'roach', they just didn't look like something anyone would want in their herd. I've also seen some breeders that preach about standard x mute pairings and still use mainly mute x mute pairings.
Sorry, I'm half awake, took a nap earlier so if anything doesn't make sense I can explain it a little more (If I even know what I mean) after I wake up more.
 
Here's the site I learned the basic punnet squares off of.

http://www.geocities.com/chinbin.geo/chingenetics.html

You can certainly breed two mutes together, though many don't. Some also dabble in line breeding in attempts to lock in a desirable trait.

However, if you have a nice ebony male and a nice ebony female, and cross them, you will possibly get nice kits. Would recommend taking that generation out to a standard though.
 
My understanding is that ebony is an accumulative gene. This means it expresses itself more completely with each generation of ebonies. So, with ebony it is acceptable to breed to ebony for many generations.

In most circumstances it is advisable to breed back to standard at least every three generations, to maintain size and health. Mostly, it depends on what traits you are looking to bring out in future generations. That is how line breeding works, it isolates specific traits and makes them more and more prevalent by breeding related animals to one another, making their offspring more "homozygous" for the given trait.
 
Thank you for the link Spoof. That brings up another question though.
What is the difference in a white mosaic, silver mosaic, and Wilson white?
 
Name. Genetics are all the same. :)

I use silver mosaic as a physical description. Wilson white was the term for the white originally developed in that herd, though there were many whites that showed up in many different herds. White mosaic is the generic term.
 
Name. Genetics are all the same. :)

I use silver mosaic as a physical description. Wilson white was the term for the white originally developed in that herd, though there were many whites that showed up in many different herds. White mosaic is the generic term.

Ahh, so it's basically all the same. I wonder why they call them different things then. Maybe because of the 'panda chinchilla' of making more money?
 
i dont really think that theres much difference in the whites mentioned...
they are all white mosaics. Probably just refering to the silver mosaics having more grey tipping ...appearing more silver then white... and the wilson whites are mostly all white with the exception of grey ears and grey tail base
I believe
 
Fancy names usually come from who developed those traits to be more dominant, the wilson white is supposed to be all white with black eyes and black ears ( can have the tail base as well I believe), but it is still a white and will produce other whites, etc.

A pink white actually do not have pink eyes, they sometimes have red eyes, but not the gelly bright pink you find in albinos, also pink whites can have "color" on them. This is one of my kits who is a pink white, see the beige on her face? Some times they have a "dusting" or silver tipping which she has yet, but will probably fade away.
pwfemale.jpg


The term homozygous can be deceiving. There are true homo beige chins, but you can not tell by color, they TEND to be the lighter soft beige, often with redder eyes, but to really find out you need to breed them. I have an awesome girl we thought was homo, but in a mistake breeding she produced a white, which would not be possible if she was a homo, it would need to be a pink white.

The homo ebony is not a true homozygous at all, if so you would get a ebony every time, and you can breed a "homo" eb to another eb and get std e/c's.

If you breed two animals that are homozygous for the same gene you will always get that same thing back, because that is the only gene they have to give to their offspring. To put it simply.

Try the silverfalls chin calculator out for some fun times, it's neat to see what you can get, and what the odds are, and if you pay attention you can get the gist of how genes work.
 
Oh yeah Rick I totally know that. My point on that was there are no beige wraps. Also second point being for a wrap to occur and be considered a "wrap" in say a violet or sapphire you would need a ebony, either v/c or s/c


ann1 - you are correct about the violets and sapphires having to be carriers, however, with beiges, if you breed an ebony, you can get a tan without the ebony being a carrier. I've done this with a brown velvet dam and extra dark ebony sire, 3 times! [trying for chocolates!]
 
Well, all of this is very interesting. I'm wondering about my female Aiko. On her pedigree it just has 'White Mosaic' above 'Animal'. But, she's solid white, dark eyes, black ears, black tail base and white tail tip. Maybe a little ashy on her face, though not much at all, barely noticable unless looking very closely. Would she be considered a Wilson white?
 
Hetro. Tower beige isn't incomplete dominant it is dominant ,nothing about it is incomplete. Was reading how some of nick Towers daily notes he made during the early development of the beige , really makes you appreciate all he did so we have the beige today. He spent hours everyday with the original tower beige documenting everything weight gain/loss general health down to what her stool looked like. and spent a huge amount of time effort ,energy ,as well as money in the care of the first beige mutation. and later in the development of the mutation. And it took it's toll. His health was why he decided to allow a nearby rancher to exibit the first beiges at shows,(he was under Drs. orders not to travel) and later to sell his entire herd. What a truely dedicated man.
 
Back
Top