Critical Care Help/ Gi stasis

[Godofgods]

Chico had stopped eatting his pellets and hay and drinking out of the blue one night (saterday into sunday). Sunday night into monday he didnt eat either. So monday morning i called the vet (closed sundays). I had him seen that day.

They werent positive on the exact cause. Physical examination of body and teeth appeared normal. They said its possible it could be resulting from another bladder infection. Chico had dropped in weight from 666g to about 616g. His Gi had gone a bit into stasis tho.

I was given a course of antibiotics (A trimethoprim peditric suspension). Its the only one hes ever had that he will actually take. He seems to love the cherry flavor of it.

I was also given a bag of critical care to hand feed him with. My initial question was; is there any way to cherry flavor that? The bag is a apple banana flavor supposedly, but he rly doesn't like it and he wont eat very much of it at all. Hes quite stubborn that way, short of shoving it down his throat hes quite adamant about not eating much of it. - Since he needs to eat something tho, i tried mixing a small amount of CC and water, with a bit of his cherry medican. While he still wouldn't eat a lot of it, he ate more then any other method iv thought of so far. How ever im limited to the correct dosage of meds and only twice a day at most. So i was wondering if there were other ways to flavor it cherry in hopes he might eat some more.

My new question comes from reading another CC thread before posting this. Ppl talking about feeding chins 100ml+ a day. That caught me off guard. Even my directions from the vet label say 8mls by mouth three times a day. (Of course i cant even get him to eat 1 at a time) - But i was looking at the syringe, and 100 ml seems quite off? Im guessing im missing some kind of abbreviation or conversion here. Because 100ml would be 17 full syringe fills of feed.

Either way i need to get this boy eating so id be grateful for any suggestions. He has started eating very small amounts of pellets in the last day or two. Around 1/2 tbls or less. And this is from a chin that LOVES his pellets above all other food.

 

[Newt]

If he loves his pellets, why not grind/mush up some pellets and add that to the CC? It could improve the flavour for him.

As far as intake, I aimed for 10-12mls every three hours (night and day) when my girls weren't eating anything. So that's a minimum of 80mls every 24hrs, which is necessary to maintain their current weight.
Do a forum search for "burrito" it will give you heaps of tips on safe force feeding.

Has Chico had any gut stimulants, such as metacloprimide?
Is he pooping at all?

 

[ticklechin]

You can try adding molasses to the CC for flavour, also if this goes on for a bit get some Lifeline from chocolatechinchillas.com, most chins think its crack, or essentials for life from Fuzzys kingdom chins dig that also-the essentials can replace CC, lifeline can be mixed 50/50 with CC or in worst case scenario replace it short term. Chins can eat over 120ml a day, the min is 45ml-45ml will keep the digestive tract moving but there will most likely be weight loss. With stasis it better to feed small amounts frequently, 5-10 ml every couple of hours, get the chin up and moving around after-if you have to chase them to move chase them. I also find that putting them in the dry bath tub or shower for 15-30 min gets the poo moving, do that a few times a day. You do need reglan at the min, I use reglan and propulsid-reglan works the lower GI tract, propulsid the upper.

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

another thing you can add is pumpkin (in baking isle). Make sure it is 100% pumpkin and NOT the kind with pie spices.

 

[Godofgods]

If he loves his pellets, why not grind/mush up some pellets and add that to the CC? It could improve the flavour for him.

im not sure why i didnt think to try that...

As far as intake, I aimed for 10-12mls every three hours (night and day) when my girls weren't eating anything. So that's a minimum of 80mls every 24hrs, which is necessary to maintain their current weight.

Chins can eat over 120ml a day, the min is 45ml-45ml will keep the digestive tract moving but there will most likely be weight loss.

Looking at that syringe ~100 mls seems like a very large amount. Tho i guess that part is less relevant when i cant even get him past 1 ml.

Has Chico had any gut stimulants, such as metacloprimide?
Is he pooping at all?

No gut stimulants. I do still have some Digestive Health Powder left if that would help at all.
He wasnt pooping much at all. And what was there was beyond small. Ill update that a little bit further down tho.

With stasis it better to feed small amounts frequently, 5-10 ml every couple of hours, get the chin up and moving around after-if you have to chase them to move chase them.

Do a forum search for "burrito" it will give you heaps of tips on safe force feeding.

This is one issue that has concerned me. Chico has a pathological fear of being picked up. A good while back i had to pick him up daily to give him an antibiotic that he didnt like. He lived in fear of my presence and would freak when i came into the room. It got to him so much that he stopped eating and drinking all together. Obviously thats something i dont want happening here.

Fortunately, he doesn't seem to be going quite as far this time. He is still not happy but he is managing. However he will freak out if i try to burrito him. He would rather sit on his hind legs with me holding him across his chest/arms. He might actually remain calm a little while that way.

The trouble with feeding is that he simply doesn't want to eat it. Much like a feeding a baby his baby food. You can put it in his mouth but after a little bit, hes just going to spit it out/not eat it, no matter how much u put in.

You do need reglan at the min, I use reglan and propulsid-reglan works the lower GI tract, propulsid the upper.

Iv never heard of this.

---

On the plus side. I awoke today to find that Chico had eaten his whole tbls of pellets last night and messed around with the hay some at least. There was a lot more poop then had been there the last few days. It still small, but a little larger then it was.

And if photobucket ever wants to actually load up... ill post the picture of it.

 

[Godofgods]

finally got it to work but cant edit last post. So here is the pic.

 

[Godofgods]

Bit of a side story.

You can try adding molasses to the CC for flavour,

Hopefully he will continue eating so i wont have to consider it, but im not sure that molasses is a good idea. Granted if he stopped eating, you would have to do what ever you have to do.

But Chico has been dealing with his diabetic issues again the last few months. His sticky urine went away before when he was switched from select series pro pellets to AMD which used the beat pulp instead of cane molasses as a binding agent. He was good for a good while, but it recently resurfaced. Thats why he was down to only 1tbls pellets (instead of 2) for the last month or so. Trying to get him to eat more hay.

I was also told to consider switching him to oxbow pellets for the higher fiber content then AMD. (side note, oxbow and SS Pro are very similar in making. And both have nearly the same fiber content and both use the cane molasses so im doubting it will work. But it was still worth a try.) Ironically the pellets arrived here the same day that i noticed Chico not eating. So i never switched the pellets. (Bag is unopened). Figured he needed to be healthy and eating his normal pellets good before trying to switch him to new ones.

 

[Godofgods]

You do need reglan at the min, I use reglan and propulsid-reglan works the lower GI tract, propulsid the upper.

Iv never heard of this.

Has Chico had any gut stimulants, such as metacloprimide?

was searching; looks like reglan and metacloprimide are the same thing, a gut stimulant.

 

[ticklechin]

Blackstrap molasses is what they use in the feed, used with "normal" chinchillas this is not a problem, with Chico I forgot his diabetes issue. Reglan is the trade name for metacloprimide, it works on the lower digestive tract, propulsid on the upper digestive tract. In Chico's case he is pooing, so stasis is not present so reglan alone would do to help prevent stasis from happening if you cannot get enough food into him. When feeding I never burrito, not sure if you have seen my hand feeding a PIA chin but here it is, I like to tickle the nose (1:28 or so into the video) when they won't swallow, it ticks them off messing with the nose and whiskers and they swallow. I feed all of mine this way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICgcpTg06kU

 

[Godofgods]

heh, that looks like chico on a good day lol
He just as such a fear of being off his feet. More so then any other chin iv ever seen. And not knowing his past, only that he was passed from owner to owner before reaching me, makes me wonder if there is a true physiological issue form something that happened in his past.

My other question that iv been wondering for a while now, iv seen and heard ppl saying about feeding them directly in the mouth like you did in that video. But i also remember ppl on here saying that its a bad idea cause they could aspirate or something on it. Thats it safer/better to put it on the lip/chin and let them lick it off. (Again; granted if hes not eating, you have to do what you have to do.)

Ill ask the vet about Reglan either tonight or tomorrow. Last night into today, was the first night he ate a full tbls of pellets. So we will see tomorrow morning if that is just a one time thing, or if he might be starting to eat steadily again.

 

[ticklechin]

A chin who does not eat directly from the syringe willingly will never lick it off the lips, the key to getting it in without aspiration is place the syringe in the mouth just behind the front teeth and squirt a tiny bit, get them to swallow it by tickling the nose, lips or whiskers and repeat.

 

[Godofgods]

well i gave chico 2 tbls of pellets last night. He ate just a hair over 1 tbls and a little bit of hay. So hes not back to full yet, but he is at least eating some on his own.

 

[mercynursie]

Just a quick chime in on using beet pulp/pulp based feeds. Not sure but in horses and donkeys beet pulp can quickly cause constipation or even choke(a big wad of it absorbs too much water causing it to become stuck in throat and animal can't eat/swallow). In chins I would be most concerned about the constipation aspect, esp if already not drinking much.

 

[Godofgods]

well today i woke up and saw that chico ate nearly a full 2 tbls of pellets and some hay! His poops are still a bit smaller and less then normal, but they are bigger and more then what they were a week ago. Hopefully he continues to get better!

 

[ticklechin]

Go Chico!!!!

 

[Godofgods]

he seems to be holding steady at 1.5-2 tbls and some hay. So thats great that he is eating again. And i can actually see the water level in his water bottle has gone down now.

However after a few days iv notice his poops still remain quite small from what they should be. Any estimate on how long it would take after starting eating again before the would reach normal size? Or could something else still be wrong with him?

 

[Newt]

It will take a while for his gut flora to repopulate and stabilise. Not sure how long, but his poops should return to normal eventually.
So long as he's still eating and drinking normally, and he's still pooping with usual frequency, then I wouldn't worry too much about poop size.

If the poops keep getting smaller and smaller, or stop entirely, then you need a vet ASAP.