Bacterial Enteritis - experience with this?

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greychins

NWI Chinchillas
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
1,589
Location
Hammond, IN
Ok, so little backstory. As some of you know, about 7 weeks ago, I had 5 chins all pass of unknown reasons. About one every other day for 12 days. The 5th was taken in for a necropsy, which did not show cause of death. Tissue samples were sent out, and I just got them back today, 5 weeks later... they showed bacterial enteritis - overgrowth of bacteria in the intestinal tract.

That said... that's why this chin died. No way to know if that's why all 5 died.

The vet told me to bring in a chin at the first sign of illness, and I told them, well, there were no signs, the chins just keeled over dead (that's how it was for all 5). Their advice was to change both the food and environment. However... moving the rescue to a different "environment" is not possible. As far as the food... I am still feeding the same food now as I was then, and no more chins have died in the past 5 weeks.

Any thoughts on this? Has anyone dealt with bacterial enteritis before? Thoughts on what causes an overgrowth of bacteria in the intestinal tract?
 
Did they find out what bacteria was prevelant? It would have to be IMO a nasty one such as Clostridium or E. coli, to kill that rapidly without symptoms.
 
Unfortunately, they do not. The tissue samples were done at an outside lab and the vet said it just says "bacterial enteritis" on the report. Not as helpful as I'd like, but it is what it is.

Dawn -- for either you mentioned, would there be a common way that a chin would end up with those bacterias in its system?
 
If the chins has gone through a stressful period then I would think it could be the bacteria was present in the digestive tract and the stress caused a Ph imbalance which caused the bad bacteria to flourish, if that was not the case I hate to say a human to chin transmission.
 
The most common way of introducing e.coli, cryptosporidium or coccidia is through the water. Sometimes in municipal water systems there will be a bloom of bacteria for one reason or another and unfortunately humans and animals will become ill. Well water is not immune to this either. This is one reason why I always use reverse osmosis water. Chinchillas can be so susceptible to bacteria.

If one chin gets enteritis, it isn't all that big of a deal...but losing five chins probably points to something stronger than just stress. You probably had a concentration of bacteria higher than normal in the water...or in the environment...or in the food. There has to be some mode of introducing that bacteria to the digestive system of the chinchillas.

Most likely you dealt with e.coli or coccidia. If it had been crypto, you probably would have had much worse issues.

Are you treating the rest of your chins for this? Maybe Albon or Chlorpalm? Something like that?
 
Water shouldn't be taken out of the picture as the culprit, but what about food-borne bacteria? How do you store your food? Where do you store it? How do you handle it? When was the last time you bought food for your chins?

I'm so sorry that you're going through this. :(
 
If the chins has gone through a stressful period then I would think it could be the bacteria was present in the digestive tract and the stress caused a Ph imbalance which caused the bad bacteria to flourish, if that was not the case I hate to say a human to chin transmission.

I am having an issue with this same thing, and my vet says that it is most likely just as Dawn said, going through a stressfull period when the bacteria are already present. I just wish I knew what to treat the ones that havent died with that are still not eating or drinking. Nothing the vet has perscribed seems to be helping and I have been hand feeding for almost 3 weeks.
 
Ashley, glad you finally have some answers...while I'm sure it doesn't help the one's who died, maybe you can learn a little about it and try to prevent it (as much as possible) in the future.

Brandy- sorry to hear you're still going through illness right now. I hear many are unfortunately, hopefully you and your vet will figure something out soon. Keep us posted!
 
I don't have anything to offer, and am very sad to hear your going through this.

Only thing I can suggest outside the wonderful comments of forum members, is to perhaps contact big ranchers and see what they may be able to offer. Just a thought.

Maybe Jim, Ralph, Ron or others?
Or contacting a university vet college and ask advice on what may work? Just a thought.

Continue to update the thread please. I would very much like to know how it is managed.

Best of luck to any of you going through this. And many it end quickly.
 
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Just wanted to clarify -- the deaths stopped 5-6 weeks ago, the last one to die was the one that actually went in for the necropsy. At the moment, everyone's looking healthy

Most of the chins that died were rescues who'd been here 1+ month and were available for adoption (so, had cleared their evaluation/quarantine). One was only here 3-ish days, so in that sense, I could see that one being related to stress, but the others I'm not sure. Not much changes in terms of environment at the rescue, but then, I'm not a chin, so I don't know what might cause a chin to stress out.

We have a pur 3 filter, on the water, wouldn't that pull those types of bacteria out of the water?

As far as treating the rest of the chins -- I've talked to my vet, but they want me to bring in a chin, so they can figure out what they're dealing with, and then they know what to treat it with. But then, to treat the herd... they want me to bring them all in and have them all cultured. Just to bring them in the door is $64/chin, not including the culture or any meds needed, I'd be looking at ~$2500 just to walk in the door and that would bring the chin account down to practically nothing. Even if I paid that, I couldn't then afford the culture for all 40-something chins.

If deaths start up again or one appears sick, I'm happy to bring it in, but I can't run the risk of paying $2500 for the vet to find nothing, as all the chins currently appear healthy and happy, and it's been 5-6 weeks since this all started.

As far as it being food, I store the bags of food on a raised wooden platform off the floor. I bought the food that was being used when these chins died about 2 months prior... I buy 250 pounds at a time so it lasts me a bit. The food, when taken out of the bag, is put in an airtight rolling dog-food container. I use a scooper to get the food out of the container, which is washed pretty regularly.

You know, I just was at Ron and Rich's places this past weekend to pick up chins and I didn't even think to ask. I did talk to Jim about this and if I remember correctly, he said a number of things can cause it.
 
I too have had issues. For me it started shortly after Nationals. At that time I believed it was a feed issue so I threw away 8 unopened bags and did a cold turkey switch. After seeing what all happened since I no longer believe that mine was feed related at all. The problems continued on till about the end of May. During that time I moved most of my young ones upstairs into 2 3-tier FN's in an effort to protect them so to speak. The symptoms were that chins would stop eating/drinking/stasis. I was able to save 2 by handfeeding/simethicone/probiotics, etc. All was then fine for a while from the end of May up until 6 weeks after I brought in a small herd of 19 on Aug 1st. Then I had approx. a dozen develop mushy poo and I lost another 4 more. At this time I tried all of the things I tried before to save them including giving subq fluids. My vet prescribed Panacur for both rounds of issues. I have now been problem free for well over a month now. It seems to me at least that this works it's way through the herd and then they either survive or don't. I do think that it is important to point out that the ones who had mushy poo were the ones that I segregated upstairs during the first round of problems. All of the ones who were exposed the first time had no issues during the second and it seems as if certain lines are affected moreso than others. Only 1 of my existing chins was lost after bringing in new animals and that girl's father and sister both died during the first round. Kits that I have had born since the onset of the issue have all been fine. It is almost as if they have an immunity. I only had 1 with an issue all year and if I am not mistaken he was already born when the problem first started but he did also survive and pulled through.
 
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No I did not have necropsies done...why...THIS IS WHY! It provides no concrete answers. Yes you get a status report on the condition of the body/organs at the time of death. It does not answer why or how. Results are vague. No kidding my chins had gut issues...I knew they were sick! It is frustrating. All I know is I am not adding any new animals and I am no longer going to shows because of this. There is a big problem with chins right now and it is affecting many people. I hope that more people come forward and we can talk about these things in an effort to try and get some answers at some point. Too bad chins aren't as popular as dogs/cats...then we might have a shot at research being done....
 
I'm sorry to read that poeple are having problems with chins dying. It's always so upsetting and frustrating when the cause remains unexplained.


I wonder, is there a common denomenator between the peope who are having problems with sudden chins deaths at the moment? Have you all attended shows in the last few months maybe or taken on new chins?
 
Sorry to hear about the problems too. I'm frustrated with one of mine that doesn't eat on her own for about 3 weeks. X-rays were done on her no teeth problems, fecal test negative, blood work vet couldn't get enough to send to lab. None of my animals have died (knock on wood).
I myself would like to know too about the people if they were at shows.
 
Claire -- the people I've talked to that have had similar problems have all brought in new chins within the last 6 months, but in no case does it seem to have started right after new ones were brought in. What I keep hearing is that people brought in chins and then months later, this happened. Now for me, I get in rescues pretty regularly, seems some get adopted, more come in. But even for me, I had the rescue closed to intakes because it was full at the time this started. Hadn't had a chin come in for about 2 months, if I remember correctly, before they started dying. The one that was only here 3 days was one that was adopted and returned soon after, but was not the first to die, and deaths started actually before he came back.

The only show that I'd been to prior to this, this year (2013) was MCBA Nationals. That does seem to be sort of interesting, as two people I talked to with chin deaths recently also went to Nationals. Was supposed to go to the WI show in October, but this happened the week before, so I couldn't risk bringing a possibly sick chin, so I stayed home.
 
Claire -- the people I've talked to that have had similar problems have all brought in new chins within the last 6 months, but in no case does it seem to have started right after new ones were brought in. What I keep hearing is that people brought in chins and then months later, this happened. Now for me, I get in rescues pretty regularly, seems some get adopted, more come in. But even for me, I had the rescue closed to intakes because it was full at the time this started. Hadn't had a chin come in for about 2 months, if I remember correctly, before they started dying. The one that was only here 3 days was one that was adopted and returned soon after, but was not the first to die, and deaths started actually before he came back.

I know people have barracked and even ridiculed me in the past for my views on length of appropriate/effective quarantine but stories like we are reading here just make me more determined to keep plugging away with 16 weeks.

I also know and appreciate that for some it is difficult to quarantine for that length of time in a separate area but I've seen too many people lose chins well after the 4 week "accepted norm" period.
It's heartbreaking all round. :(

The only show that I'd been to prior to this, this year (2013) was MCBA Nationals. That does seem to be sort of interesting, as two people I talked to with chin deaths recently also went to Nationals. Was supposed to go to the WI show in October, but this happened the week before, so I couldn't risk bringing a possibly sick chin, so I stayed home.

Might be worth following up to see if anyone else was affected also?
 
The people that purchased new chins within 6 months did the old breeders have some that died? Did people get the chins from the same place?
 
If you are able to do 16 week quarantines, more power to you. I don't have that amount of room available to me, just small areas. Will be even smaller when I move :(

Definitely.
 
The people that purchased new chins within 6 months did the old breeders have some that died? Did people get the chins from the same place?

The answer to this is yes some chins were bought from the same people but to be able to tell if it was from the show itself or from a new chin would NEVER be able to be proven and to finger point would be pointless and a waste of time/energy.

Most of the people who I know of who have had issues are people who actively show. That being said...so many of us have chins intermingled from each other and newer herds are the ones I mostly see affected...this is just going by what I am actually aware of. When it comes to an issue like this I am not so sure many are gonna be willing to publically admit to having deaths...
 
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