Simethicone- a new look

I have been talking with our vet regarding the usefulness of simethicone. Recently he called me and relayed a post from a vet forum. University researchers stated that the use of simethicone was not indicated to treat the type of gas chins suffer during bloat. This is because simethicone is an anti foaming agent. I gathered the 2 researchers did more than just read the label.

Our protocol has now changed to emphasize hydration, exercise and massage, x-rays and motility drugs also as long as there is enough to move. This will be started at the earliest detected sign of bloat.

I would appreciate any info on refining the above.

Rick

Little off topic, but what are the signs of early bloat?

The signs of early bloat can be subtle. First, start looking when there is a reason- a there are many: switching food, injesting bad food items (especially with youngsters) may cause bloat, or so I am told. The 5 cases I have been confronted with can be linked to infections of the mouth or - I think more likely - the antibiotics used to treat such. Watch for a sudden decrease or cessation of drinking (Do Not give a sugared drink like Pedilyte!), a roundness of the tummy and a taut, drumhead like feeling when palpated; abnormal stretching or rubbing the stomach- once you see it you'll have no doubts what's going on.

Make sure you know what 'normal' feels like so you can detect abnormal quickly.

I was always under the impression that it shouldn't be used to TREAT bloat, but help prevent it.

So why would the type of agent cause it to be contraindicated in the "type" of bloat that chins have?

Simethicone works only in the abdomen. When you have gas in the abdomen, simethicone works to break the "film" on the gas bubble so that it can be passed by the the chin. A large bubble in the intestines is what typically causes stasis because where there is a gas bubble, there isn't food for the intestines to push on.

Since simethicone is harmless without overdose effects, I see no reason to not continue it.

NOLA Chins said:

University researchers stated that the use of simethicone was not indicated to treat the type of gas chins suffer during bloat. This is because simethicone is an anti foaming agent. I gathered the 2 researchers did more than just read the label.

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Ummm....... so what did they do exactly to warrant such a recommendation?
Simethicone as an anti-foaming agent is used extensively as an adjunct in the treatment of bloat -I (for one) would need to see some very robust research before I considered discontinuing it's use.

Our protocol has now changed to emphasize hydration, exercise and massage, x-rays and motility drugs also as long as there is enough to move. This will be started at the earliest detected sign of bloat.

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I'm curious - please can you explain your previous protocol?

Was my first post unclear? The type of bloat suffered by chins is not classified as foaming.

We will likely continue using it also. Even large doses are not harmful.

I just find it encouraging that some science is trickling down to the chins level. Something to counter-act the glib pseudo-science peddled and parroted so often.

>I'm curious - please can you explain your previous protocol?

Sure, it was what was generally accepted: simethicone, stomach massage, exercise, working against dehydration, critical care and hoping.

I am not an expert but I am intensely interested as only losing a chin could make me.

And I really should know better-

It is likely other vets will have read the same report. Instead of defending the continued use of something that may be useless, maybe a better agent can be found.

NOLA Chins said:

Something to counter-act the glib pseudo-science peddled and parroted so often.

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Yes. Those with little to no chin experience often repeat things without understanding the science behind it. It's almost as bad as when they repeat things out of context without documentation and claim it as new information.

My favorite is "My hairdresser's brother's girlfriend's aunt's sister is a vet tech..."

Oh, could you please document where someone has actually identified the "type" of bloat a chinchilla has?

NOLA Chins said:

I just find it encouraging that some science is trickling down to the chins level. Something to counter-act the glib pseudo-science peddled and parroted so often.

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You have not answered my questions ..................

Foaming bloat is generally found in ruminants - babies who use Simethicone don't generally suffer from foaming bloat either but it is still an effective treatment.

I see nothing in your posts to substantiate the "researchers" claims.

NOLA Chins said:

Our protocol has now changed to emphasize hydration, exercise and massage, x-rays and motility drugs also as long as there is enough to move. This will be started at the earliest detected sign of bloat.
Rick

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I don't understand.. the above has ALWAYS been the way to treat mild bloat and gut stasis.. Acute bloat is treated with puncturing and deflating the gas bubble with a needle either after opening up the chin or using sonogram to locate the bubble. So are you saying that your old protocol was JUST the gas drops?

Nancy-

I quote only you: "large bubble in the intestines is what typically causes stasis"

As to the rest, I am just passing on something I thought interesting.

I think we need some more info - it's just a "theory" that we can't substantiate or discuss fully.
Do you have any links or info about the "research" work that you can share?

As chinchewy has pointed out - there is nothing in your "new" protocol which is different except leaving out the Simethicone - I have to say that having treated chins with bloat on several occasions those that do not receive simethicone have shown demonstrably more difficulty and pain. When given simethicone the pain is eased and that can't be a placebo effect!!

You mean that chins don't KNOW that you're giving them gas drops, so it's not just in there heads that it helps?

WOW, guess that rules out that hypochondriac chin theory huh?

Riven said:

You mean that chins don't KNOW that you're giving them gas drops, so it's not just in there heads that it helps?

WOW, guess that rules out that hypochondriac chin theory huh?

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Nah! They are all hypochondriacs - it's just they fool us into thinking they are dreadfully ill.

There are some research papers which suggest simethicone to treat humans has a placebo effect ..................

As someone who suffered from severe gas when I has surgery (sorry for the extreme info...lol) I will say that is absolutely false. It helped me soooooooooooooo much. Before I took it I couldn't move because I was in so much pain. Afterward, I still had some gas, but I could at least move. I know it wasn't a placebo effect either because I had to work my way up to what would actually help (4 pills). If it was a placebo I could have just taken one and called it a day.

I have just run a search in the only reputable online veterinary community I know about, and haven't found much about simethicone and chins. There are a number of posts with simethicone in rabbits and some in GPs though... basically, the consensus appears to be that rabbits don't typically get foaming bloat, but do get large gas bubbles; because of how it works, simethicone may not help much in these cases... but it also shouldn't hurt to use it. No published papers, not even any conference proceedings that I can find.

Pain management should also be included - a painful chinchilla is a chinchilla that won't eat.

Simethicone is something I ALWAYS have on hand. It is a really great product and even though you should bring your chin to a vet should there be a bloat problem, Simethicone is very safe to give and will get you through until a vet can be seen. When you see a chin show any sign of bloat, the sooner you start to treat the problem the better. This product is obtained over the counter and is something every chin parents should have.

Luckily I have yet to have to deal with bloat and do have Simethicone on hand "just in case"... I don't think that anyone is debating the fact that Simethicone should be on hand and should be used when signs of bloat appear but more that a Vet was sharing "new" research...

Hopefully one day there will be drugs that don't effect appetite or cause bloat, I am just happy to know that Our babies are being researched at a higher level...

NOLA Chins said:

Nancy-

I quote only you: "large bubble in the intestines is what typically causes stasis"

As to the rest, I am just passing on something I thought interesting.

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You starty a topic, then refuse to clairfy or back up your "research".
Gee thanks for the helpful information! :Sarcasmd: