The new Critter Nation!

You keep saying that you aren't trying to breed them, but you house them together. This means you are already breeding them. Chins don't NEED a friend. If you were responsible you could easily seperate that cage. Apparently responsibility isn't something that's looked upon highly by some.

Are you going to buy another cage for when she does have babies (which she is going to). If not, where are you going to put the dad? Do you plan on keeping everyone together, and if that's the case, do you truly believe that everyone will end up ok? Are you going to let her breedback? Do you realize this isn't great for your female? Do you care?

Essentia said:

Do you care?

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No, she doesn't. She's made it very clear, but I'm sure we'll get the "woe is me" later if/when something goes wrong.

All I keep hearing from her is :cry4: "I know what I'm doing!"

The OP needs to understand that this is just how most of us respond when we see an obviously immature person playing God with their animals. You know very well that when you put a male and a female together, the end result is babies. Were you a member of the old forum? Many of us were, and we've seen this same situation, over and over and over again.

Can you please read my 3 breeding horror stories recently posted? Are you ready for stuff like that? Are you ready for a $1,000 c section bill, and still have mom and babies die? I think people are just concerned about the chins health, as they should be. Breeding brings so many problems, and you should truly know you are breeding for a darn good reason before you do- not just because the male and female get along "so well" and like eachother.

Ah, I guess now it's my turn to be a *****. Ahem <warms up her fingers>

Let me first start by saying how excited I am to know that you are taking the tactful and incredibly nice advice of people who have no clue about breeding chinchillas. I am thrilled that you value Diva Chins advice over people who have actually bred chinchillas and actually know what they are talking about. I find that very comforting. Or, perhaps you could take the advice of someone who breeds rabbits and says it's your business -- do whatever you want. Sorry, I have to disagree with that. I am sure that wasn't exactly what she meant, but that's the way you took it, and baby you ran with it.

Now, let me share a few things with you. First, judging by the pictures you posted, your cage is not baby safe. Not just with the bar spacing, but also with the junk in them and the levels. Your cage set up is fabulous for pet chins, but not for breeding. I am not on par with ranchers as far as numbers for breeding, but I do alright. I had 150 kits last year, hand fed plenty, rotated plenty, helped deliver several that were stuck in their mom's, turned breech babies, picked up severed heads and limbs, took out males that the mom had killed, took out females that the male had beat near to death. Does that make ME qualified to answer your rude, immature, and obnoxious comments?

Oh, and before I continue, call one more person a nut job, call one more person ANYTHING and you'll find yourself banned. When you do need the help of the actual breeders on this forum because something went horribly wrong, you can instead turn to your vets who I am sure have been witness to countless deliveries, and good luck with that. So, quickly, here's some of your own advice that you might want to consider before you alienate every single person who might even consider holding your hand through your irresponsible breeding:

:shutup:

I actually laughed out loud when you tried to play the "nobody around here breeds chins" card. Gimme a break. You can't walk out your front door that you don't trip over backyard "breaders" such as yourself, who care nothing for chinchillas as a whole, only having them because they are cute and fuzzy and they are "filling a gap" in the sorely lacking chinchilla community in their area. Let me clue you in. If you have thousands of people lining up at your door to buy your chinchillas, point them in the direction of petfinder.org. There are pleeeenty of chinchillas to fill that gap for you and you won't even have to listen to anybody complain about your crappy breeding practices or your incredibly selfish reasons for doing it. (I also have to ask - if there are no breeders anywhere in Illinois, and your chins didn't come from a pet shop, where is the "breeder" that you got yours from and that the friend got hers from?)

Brandon said something that was close to what I was going to say, and let me quote Jeff Shuboye on this one, "Just because it has a penis and a vagina, doesn't mean it should be bred." You should read that several times, just to be sure you understand what it means, because it's very sage advice. (Never thought I'd say that, did ya Jefe. ha!)

And yes, you DID open the door to this discussion by saying so off-handedly -

I like the bar spacing just fine, so if my chins have any babies I dont have to worry about them escaping.

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There ya go - there it is in your own words. And that is what set people off about both your cage and your subsequent posts regarding your careless attitude towards breeding.

Okay, that's what I say to someone like yourself with an obvious chip on your shoulder. This is what I would have said had you acted like an adult:

Great cage! Love all the nifty stuff in it, but I wouldn't consider using it as is for breeding. The bar spacing should be no more than 1/2 x 1" in length. You'd be amazed what a kit can squeeze out of, especially a small kit in the 30 gm range. They are pretty much about the size of your thumb.

You should consider attending a few shows or finding a mentor nearby (or even over the internet is better than nothing) who can help you with evaluating your animals to see if they should even be considered for breeding. An experienced individual can also measure the pelvic opening to be sure that your female is safe to deliver kits. While attending shows, even if you don't show your own chins, you can pick up huge amounts of knowledge while in attendance. While there, I'm sure you can find one of the experienced ranchers and have them take a look at your chins and evaluate them. Some shows even let you assist in the judging! Then you get a real, firsthand knowledge of what the judges are talking about in qualities to look for in breeding animals.

Also, take the time to read through the breeding and baby section and the FAQ's. If I had a dime for every new breeder who came on and said "I know everything there is to know about breeding" I'd be a wealthy woman. You will be surprised at all you don't know about breeding chinchillas and what can happen. I am absolutely not against a person starting up a breeding program with their chins, I'm always just very careful to show them what can happen, to be sure that they realize the danger they could very well be putting their female in. Lots of people don't think about that before beeding a beloved pet.

How's that work for you girls? You got the nasty and the tactful. Had the OP even remotely acted like the age she posted in her profile, that is more like what she would have gotten as a response, instead of the escalating aggravated answers she ended up with.

Now, that said, let's all go play nice in the sandbox. I've had a crappy week, having fallen and torn the crap out of my ankle and knee, having to put a my wonderful dog Ginger to sleep yesterday, and now running 102 temperature and hacking up a lung. I'm not in the mood to babysit the stupidity in this thread any longer.

I do not see anywhere where I demanded you do something.... :err:

I just wanted to say...good post Tunes! :youwoman:

And THAT Ladies and Gentleman is why Tunes is one of the Admins around here...

:youwoman:

So Stackie is the first bowing smilie, KayKay is the second, and I'll be the third. Who wants to be the fourth in the group?

:hilarious: Wow, this thread has made me laugh so hard I could pee.

MzTay- You are acting just as numerous people have said and you could have taken the steam out of the arguement ages ago by acting mature and civil. I will not defend you anymore because you are just the same.

I too am sick of people like hannabear and MzTay who think they know everything then just vomit lies everywhere, but never in my life has being rude gotten anything done.

But yes every one continue to bash her over the head with information because she is reacting so well. I'm sure that if you beat her long enough everything will stick.

Or maybe we should get her off the defensive... just a thought.

I would have been fourth except for the first part of her messege... Oh well I'm expecting to be banned anytime now anyway.

I know Of 10 breeders in Illinios. Me being one of them.

All I wanted to say here is "Thank you Tunes". You said absolutely everything I wanted to say and just didn't know how to (except about the actually being a breeder part because yeah, I'm not a breeder nor do I want to be).

Just wanted to add my two cents, not that it's going to be read.

About your "I will listen to my vets. They know all" blah blah blah crud. I recently had a girl who I'd gotten from a classmate. She'd been housed with a male for the past 5 years. Both are from a reputable breeder, but neither should have been bred. Both are small, for starters. Well, guess what happened when they got here? Yeah, Squirt was pregnant. She went into labor. Took her to the vet here in the city after about 2 hrs with no kit, at which time she'd stopped labor, and the vet said "Oh, it was just a false labor." and wouldn't give her oxytocin (I got it right this time Stacie! YAY!), and the next day she delivered a stillborn kit. How's that for the vet's knowledge? I bet if I could've gotten ahold of a good, reputable large-scale breeder, they would've known and agreed to give her the Oxytocin and I'd have had a healthy, live beige girl instead of the dead one I found.

Thank you Peggy for that wonderful post.

Oh, and I must apoligize about my post that was so bad there were no words to describe it. I am truly sorry that I am not cheering someone on who is endangering her animals.