Eating and food questions.

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Raindog

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
355
Location
Chicagoland area
So Luna likes to make me worry. First I was afraid she wasn't drinking. I got that solved and now she stopped eating her kibble. She eats maybe 5 to 10 kibbles a night, mostly the ones I put in her bed. But she she eats mealies like they are going out of style. I bought a brand new bag of her kibble in case the old bag was stale, no change.

I took her to the vet last week and she got a clean bill of health. After that she stopped eating. Do you think she just needs time. What else can I try? I haven't given her any wet cat food yet because she is eating a little. I don't want that to become a staple, just a treat.

Also this got me to thinking, what is the average amount of kibble a hedgehog eats every night?
 
If I had to estimate how much my hedgie eats, I would say a couple tablespoons. I just put a single layer of food in the bottom of her dish, which is a small cat dish, probably 3 inches in diameter. She usually eats most of what is in her bowl. Nights she gets treats she may eat a little less. You could try wetting her kibble or putting some plain chicken baby food with it, it might encourage her to eat some.
 
Satin, who weighed 620-680g as an adult, ate 9g of kibble.
Texie; weighed ~350-380g, ate 12g.
Bella; ~385g; 6g (occasionally 10g).
Marlee is young, she ate ~20g as she was growing. She's stopped growing and started to eat less. I'm still putting ~18g in... she just leaves a bunch behind, so I'm not quite sure. Maybe 12-16g. She weighs ~585g now.

Remind me how big Luna is. And what kibble she's on.

For now, just keep putting kibble in her bed since she's eating it there. And put the kibble dish right up next to her bed. Keep track of her weight too.
 
Luna is 365g and she is eating Natural Balance LID Green Pea and Chicken. I have given her a bit of the Royal Canin light to try, that was Quinn's fav and my Aunt uses it in her cat food mix, but she is uninterested.

Do you think I should leave her alone for a day or two? I have been handling her every day so far.
 
I wouldn't leave her alone for a day or two. I'd keep handling. And I'd do my best to take a look at her little teeth if she allows it... just in case there's something funny going on there. Keep checking her weight to make sure she isn't shrinking. I'd also do a once-over of everything since there could be a crazy chain of events going on like: the wheel is at slightly the wrong angle, so she's not running, and since she's not running, she doesn't really need to eat much to maintain her weight, etc... Or nails are a little too long. Or her cage is a bit cool. Or too hot. Or in a draft. Or there's too much light. Or her bedding has the "wrong" scent. Or, or, or... So, basically, do a once-over check of everything you can think of that has to do with her and her environment.

Since she's at least eating in bed, keep up with that. You could try mixing her kibbles in with a little bit of wet food - sticking them in to the top so she needs to at least deal with the kibbles to get to the (possibly) more desirable wet food.

Likely though, she may just be getting used to everything that's going on and needs to experience a very consistent schedule.

Has she been gaining weight, losing weight, or staying consistent?

Other things that may come into play: I think the Natural Balance is great. I'd feed it to my crew, but they uniformly reject things shaped like hockey pucks... unless they're very small pucks. So out went the Natural Balance, Spot's Stew, and a few others. Picky creatures!! I'm not sure where the Royal Canin is shaped like... I only know the Baby Cat (tiny pellets) and Kitten (small X's).

You might try and get some samples of different shapes or sizes - Wellness is more of a pellet. Katz-n-Flocken is shaped like X's. Fromm has nice little pieces that might be a good size for a 365g hedgie - particularly if she has a petite mouth. If they don't have samples at the store, you can check out the website and click on the "contact us" links at the kibble sites. I've received samples and coupons for free kibbles by mail that way. But each in a different dish and see what happens...
 
Luna is still not eating. I took her to the vet again and she is fine. She is not drinking enough either. She was a little dehydrated. She is loosing weight. I have tried different foods in different dishes. I have tried wet cat food, baby food, veggies. She is uninterested in any of it. She will only eat a small amount of the Natural Balance and mealies. I have cut down on her interaction time, only holding her for 30 mins to an hour in the afternoon. I don't know what else to do. I am getting very worried.

Also she is running a lot. Average of 5 miles a night. Should I take out her wheel? I don't want to upset her anymore.
 
Miss Luna! What is going on with you little one? You have your momma very worried and your doctor quite confused.

Running, at least, is a good thing. What does her shape look like -- if she's standing and you're looking from above, what shape is she? Oval, tear-drop, twinkie, hourglass? She was 365g last week; how much does she weigh at this point? And how does that compare with her max weight?

I think I'd leave the wheel in and get my hands on one of the higher calorie supplements from the vet that you could syringe feed -- like Hills A&D? You could add a touch of water to ensure that she's getting enough fluids.

I'll see if I can rustle up some other thoughts too!
 
I called upon the counsel of a long-time hedgie rescuer who had a few thoughts. In general, symptoms seem to point to Luna's mouth. She noted:

My initial thoughts are her mouth hurts since her activity levels are currently still high. In fact, if they are higher than usual, it may even suggest she is irritated by something. My little toothless gal ran hard and didn't eat much when her teeth were in bad shape. Once we got the problematic tooth pulled, she settled back down.

Also many of Luna’s symptoms remind me of those that I saw with my new boy, which is an example of another spot in the mouth to look. He initially decreased the amount of kibble he ate, and then increased slightly. I thought it was just he was finally settling in and things were improving. Then he finally just stopped eating kibble, but ate canned food & mealworms readily, then stopped eating canned food, then stopped eating mealworms. Then the swelling in the soft part under his tongue finally showed up. He also exhibited frothy saliva the last few days and started “working” his mouth a lot. When syringe fed he ate willingly once he figured out what was happening.

Vet visit showed that his teeth and gums are great and his throat looks clear. No problems there, it is just the soft part under his tongue that was swollen. Two fine needle aspirates were taken, one from inside the mouth of that area, and one from outside. A cytology of those samples showed infection and possible cancer in that location. He is currently being treated with antibiotics for the infection and metacam for the pain. After 6 days of treatment is he now fully eating on his own (though I have not offered hard kibble yet, but I haven’t syringe fed him for 3 nights) and the swelling is greatly decreased. Whether or not this is cancer, we will find out later. For now the infection is going down and he is improving.

Some questions I have are: What did the vet do to determine that she is fine? Did the vet knock her out and examine her gums, teeth, area under her tongue, and down her throat? If nothing was found there, I would ask about X-Rays to look for any problems in her jaw/mouth.

Is there any frothy saliva in her mouth when she wakes her up? Does she lick her lips/smacks her mouth a lot when just awakened? Does she seem to be uncomfortable when lying in a snuggle bag with her? Is her behavior more frantic/panicked than when she first came home? Does she see her working her mouth at all? Any noticeable debris in the water bowl (kibble pieces)?

All of those are symptoms I’ve seen in hedgehogs that had mouth problems.

I’d get some Hills A/D or another canned food that is a pate and start syringe feeding her to ensure she is getting enough.

I wouldn’t cut her interaction time down, use it to try to get her to eat and watch for subtle symptoms like the working of the mouth, saliva, uncomfortable/trouble laying still, etc., and talk to the vet again and keep him updated.
 
What does her shape look like -- if she's standing and you're looking from above, what shape is she? Oval, tear-drop, twinkie, hourglass? She was 365g last week; how much does she weigh at this point? And how does that compare with her max weight?

Luna is twinkie shaped. She has thinned out a bit loosing about 30g. She is 335g now. Her max weight was around the 365g range.

My aunt, who had a cat gave me samples from the mix she uses to try. The Royal Canin was a bust, but Luna did eat a decent amount of, sigh, Purina Cat Chow. I know it is not the best food, but I was glad to see the food gone. It is a small, thin hockey puck shape. about 1/2 the size of the Natural Balance. Do you know any other food that is this size I can try?

Some questions I have are: What did the vet do to determine that she is fine? Did the vet knock her out and examine her gums, teeth, area under her tongue, and down her throat? If nothing was found there, I would ask about X-Rays to look for any problems in her jaw/mouth.

Is there any frothy saliva in her mouth when she wakes her up? Does she lick her lips/smacks her mouth a lot when just awakened? Does she seem to be uncomfortable when lying in a snuggle bag with her? Is her behavior more frantic/panicked than when she first came home? Does she see her working her mouth at all? Any noticeable debris in the water bowl (kibble pieces)?

At the last appointment Luna was sedated and the doctor checked out her mouth and did blood work and everything came back ok. She doesn't show signs of discomfort or anything out of the ordinary. Her behavior has not changed, excepting that she seems more friendly/settling in. There is no debris in the water bowls but there are lots of crumbs in the food bowl and the area around it.

We have a follow up appointment coming up.
 
To echo what others are saying - until you figure it out you must ensure she is both eating and drinking. The risk of fatty liver disease is always there when an animal decides not to eat for whatever reason and that will just exacerbate things. Syringe feeding is a must if there's no other way, at least until she begins to eat more on her own or is diagnosed with whatever ails her.
 
Luna's recheck went ok. The vet offered her a bunch of different foods, all of which she rejected except for the mealies. The vet had some Hills A/D which she turned her nose up at. We then stuck mealies in it, which she was eyeing but ignored. Until she couldn't contain herself anymore and ran up to and snatched the mealies away from that nasty food. It was adorable, but quite frustrating. Finally we tried a type of carnivore critical care. She loved it! So I am feeding her that 2 times a day and guess what? Last night she ate well.

But nothing ever goes smoothly, she has dropped off in running. Is that common in this situation? It makes a kind of logical sense, after not eating much for how long, now she is feeling full and doesn't feel like running? I know I don't feel like running after a big meal. After she gets used to eating again will she start running? I added in her immune booster to her critical care today just in case.

We go in for a weigh in in 2 weeks unless she does not continue to eat. If that happens we will do the x-rays.
 
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