Vet trip..interesting advice

starleomach said:

It has been proven to be dangerous. chinchilla fed fresh greens bloat. I would never recomend someone switch carefully. Unless the want to kill their chinchilla. It isn't just diarrhea. Chinchillas are meant for dried grass if anthing not fresh. The have digestive tracts similar to that of a horse and horses getting a lot of fresh greens causes diarrehea and bloat. Most people keep them off spring grass because it is wa to green and can kill. DO NOT give a chinchilla fresh greens.

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Horses that are used to hay and suddenly get a free-for-all grazing can colic pretty severely. Horses that are used to getting a fair bit of fresh grass, or horses that only get a couple minutes a day for a treat don't typically have problems. Same goes with chinchillas, rabbits and guinea pigs. Honestly, it's so much easier to not feed fresh greens that I don't really see a reason to do it. But in the right hands, I am of the opinion that it can be done. Sort of like a raw food diet - if a dog owner wants to take the time and energy to plan meals, vary the diet, prepare the food properly, make sure nutrients are balanced, etc., then sure, go for it. But don't switch from 100% kibble to 100% raw overnight. Feeding raw is not for everyone. Feeding greens is not for everyone. And like I said... with so little reason to do it, why bother?

InkedupTara said:

I don't think cutting back on the feed and upping the hay is a good idea. Is there a reason to do that? I was under the impression they should have both, and have heard of someone doing something similar and the chin weights went down.

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I'm not sure about doing this in terms of weight loss, but I do know that it is recommended in the case of soft stools as it increases proportion of fiber in their diet.

As far as feeding greens... I can't see any good reason to do this, even if it wasn't potentially dangerous.

Does anyone know of an *excellent* and experienced vet that might be willing to email/call this vet?

In humans, when a General Practitioner treats a patient with a heart defect, he/she often refers to/calls a Cardiologist to figure out how to treat it (or at least you hope they do). I don't see anything wrong with giving a not-as-knowledgeable-as-he/she-thinks vet the contact information for another vet with chin experience and setting up a consultation.

The easiest way to make more chin-smart vets available is to make more chin-smart vets. The ones that *aren't* willing to learn from their peers are the ones to whom I wouldn't trust my pets' lives, or give my business.

You're vet sounds like she means well, but has no real idea what she's talking about.

10 year bag balm user here. Yeah, they eat a little sometimes...just a taste and no harm done.

Also a raw feeder here (for the dogs). If chin food was as bad as dog food, I'd feed the chins fresh foods and hay. I'm not recommending everyone try it, but it can work. But, as said there's no reason to. 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.' Chins can live long, healthy lives on pellets and hay with the occasional treat for variety and mental health (mine and theirs, lol).

If the chin is truly overweight, I would ration pellets and give unlimited hay. This is also better for dental health if the chin is not a big hay eater on his own. 2-4 Tblspns of pellets each day should be about right depending on the chins size and activity level. This keeps the chin from over eating pellets and makes them work a little more on munching hay.

I would not give antibiotics for a bleeding foot unless there was sign of infection. That's like giving your kid antibiotics for a scraped knee. It's a bit overkill and probably doing more harm than good (think super-bug). I'd treat it topically with bag balm, petroleum jelly (main ingredient of bag balm), or Vit E. If there is infection though, by all means treat with antibiotics asap.

alli713 said:

About the baytril, is that to be taken orally?

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Both meds are to be given orally via syringe.

And no I'm not switching their diet over to greens. They'll just get less treats and more hay.

I think after everything I was told, and the fact its not bumblefoot or infected, I'm really just concerned about how Lilly is cutting her foot.

Again, I'll try to get pics today.

Baytril given orally is icky for chins and will put them off their food because of this. People normally suggest asking for injectable baytril if it interferes too much with their eating.

It doesn't have to be full blown bumblefoot to be a cut foot. I know of people who have had chins develop cracked feet just from being on wood shavings when the humidity in their house is exceptionally low. I bet you'll find with the antibiotics and some bag balm (or vitamin E capsules poked open and spread on the feet) that there will be lots of improvement.

The whole weight thing is what really threw me. My vet here was amazed when I would walk in with a 900-1200 gm chin for whatever reason, because all they were used to seeing was puny chins that people had gotten at the pet store. When 400 gm becomes the norm, then sure, the vet is going to think that a healthy 700+ gm chin is overweight. But it's because they haven't been exposed to one before.

Peggy, so would you say it's okay to give baytril for this? I just worry about the chin not wanting to eat? Is there something that can be given after the baytril to wash away the taste of it?

If it's not bumblefoot, why'd he prescribe antibiotics?

No, I'm not saying that Allison. Me personally? No, I would not use it. I would do some epsom soaks in warm water and then I'd put on bag balm or vitamin E. But, I don't want to completely discount her vets advice, because nobody has seen the foot. It may be infected, and if it is, then just bag balm isn't going to be enough.

HedgeMom said:

If it's not bumblefoot, why'd he prescribe antibiotics?

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She prescribed the medication to prevent an infection. There's a chance it could get infected so just to be sure it doesn't she prescribed the baytril.

The vet did recommend Vitamin E but a very, very small amount. I may try that.

Okay, that sheds some light.

Absolutely not would I use Baytril to "prevent" an infection, and definitely not orally. If an infection comes, that's one thing, but Baytril is not a medication that chins deal with well anyway. It tastes like butt drug through mud and puts a LOT of chins off their feed, causing all kinds of issues that would never have been there without it.

That's why antibiotics don't work in people any more - too much prescribing them unnecessarily.

Soak the foot in epsom salts and warm water, then slather vitamin E or bag balm on it and call it a day. IF an infection shows up, then worry about antibiotics.

I think you need a new vet, this one obviously doesn't know anything about chins, IMO.

tunes said:

That's why antibiotics don't work in people any more - too much prescribing them unnecessarily.

Soak the foot in epsom salts and warm water, then slather vitamin E or bag balm on it and call it a day. IF an infection shows up, then worry about antibiotics.

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Thats what I'm worried about.

The cisapride is supposed to help with the baytril..and both are banana flavored to help her ingest them.

I'm just weary NOT taking a vets orders. No offense to anyone on this board!

I haven't read every post here because the thread is too long, but from the first few I read, I do agree.

Personall, I love the carefresh because it's great on the smell, but again personally, my chins eat it so I don't use it. Wish they didn't eat it cuz again it's great on keeping the smell down.

WIth the leafy greens, from what I have learned on CNQ that is definately a no-no.. Some unfrosted mini wheats are a good treat, rosehips, and non-frosted cherrios are also some. No raisens (unless alittle constipated one or two won't hurt), no leafy greens, no nuts...everything everyone else said.

I won't go into more and just keep repeating what everyone has already said, but just wanted to add that I agree, and offer some more information. And in case someone didn't mention, Timothy hay is the best hay for them.


Oh and for anyone else that can answer this, not to steel your thread, but you said your vet said your chin is overweight, what is the highest in weight a chin should be. I have two big ones, if anyone ever looked at my pics from CNQ they've seen chin-chin and christy how are big. I know they aren't overweight, about 750 something grams, but just wondering what is too much weight for a chin.. THanks for anyone who can answer this.

Jean

Given the choice I would not treat a chin with Baytril to "prevent" infection - for the reasons Peggy has posted.

Breaks to the skin on the feet can be treated simply and only if there are clinical signs of infection present should antibiotic therapy be given.
There's some information which might help you here including what to look for in terms of infection signs.
Scupulously clean flooring, pressure prevention, and effective rehydration of the skin using bag balm (we use different brand of ointment/cream in the UK so I'll go with the one you guys use most) should suffice if the skin is only broken.

OK,

I have pics up now. For some reason the flash makes them look alot worse!

This is Lilly's right foot (the one I suspect of bleeding all over the cage)




Lilly's left foot



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These are "Chinchy's" feet. She's the non-bleeding one. Yet her pads are very worn also.

From those photos I would suggest your chins have early signs of bumblefoot - you can nip it in the bud by following the treatments people have suggested in this thread:
Keep an eye out for clinical signs of infection
Pressure relief - are the bases of your cages mesh or solid? If mesh then add in some fleece but make sure to change it daily. Wooden platforms or shelves are also beneficial.
Cages scrupulously clean - if you use bedding then change daily to prevent soiling and/or the chins walking/sitting in damp bedding.
Bag balm rubbed into the soles of the feet daily.

Claire D said:

From those photos I would suggest your chins have early signs of bumblefoot

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Since no one else has replied I'm really concerned.

Will bag balm and rubbing vitamin E on their feet be enough?

I think most people pretty much agree with Claire. That you are dealing with the beginning stages of bumblefoot, so there wasn't really any need to beat a dead horse. I have not dealt with bumblefoot in a chinchilla, so I cannot say yay or nay on the treatment prescribed. I've treated it in rats, but that's completely different.

I would assume a course of antibiotics, cream rubbed in, relief from standing on hard surfaces, and a very clean cage would take care of it, as Claire mentioned above.